Register SPB hacks mull chopping off feet

Weary special-projects-bureau operatives at El Reg have decided the time has come to consider exclusively adopting the International System of Units (aka SI Units), and ditching the mile, pound and related measurements. It's a royal pain in the backside working with two systems, which results in sentences such as "Baumgartner …

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If it annoys the Americans

Indeed while at the same time retaining British character.

Give the SI units alongside imperial ones - but stone or (long) tons for anything over about 20lb

British fluid ounces and gallons.

[Eugene Crosser]

Except a pint

As one raised in metric, I take centimetre, gram and second any day.

But not litre please.

"I likes a pint. You could 'a drawed me off a pint easy enough."

[Eddy Ito]

To quote Abe

"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it."

[DJO]

Re: To quote Abe

What the fuck do you drive? Concorde?

40 rods = 10 chains = 1 furlong = 660 feet

A Hogshead is 46 Imperial Gallons

So your cars burns 368 gallons per mile - You must have one hell of a fuel tank!

[Dave 126]

Re: To quote Abe

@DJO

He was quoting a fictional character who is is very old and reactionary, and prone to exaggeration when giving "When I was young.."-type accounts. Whilst I applaud your doing the sums, I call fail on your fail.

Homer Simpson, in another episode, gave a list of Springfield's virtues: "...And we we were the first town in America to abandon the Metric system!"

[Eddy Ito]

Re: To quote Abe, @DJO

Thanks for the chuckle.

[Prof Yaffle]

Go For It

It never ceases to amaze me when Radio 4 goes blathering on about ounces, inches, Farenheit, bushels, grains or similarly archaic measures. I'm 44 - firmly on the edges of "middle aged fogeyism" - and was brought up with SI right here on these shores, and have never really used anything else beyond the colloqualisms of "it's a few inches", "that's a few feet". Reach for a tape measure, though, and it's metric all the way. And don't get me started on road signs in yards, or my sat nav telling me to turn left in 200 feet... wot?

And yes, I weight myself in kilos as well, before you ask. But I recognise that this is a little unusual!

[rurwin]

Re: Go For It

"my sat nav telling me to turn left in 200 feet... wot?"

Garmin I assume. That drove me crazy too. My new Tom Tom properly uses yards.

[Steve Hosgood]

Re: Go For It

My Garmin does that too. That's why I run the thing in metric. "In 300 metres, turn left" - yeah, that's at least comprehensible even if the matching roadsign says 330yds.

But of course there almost never is a matching roadsign, so I just go with metres and ignore the Department of Transport's insistence on hanging on to useless old units on their signs.

[Real Ale is Best]

SI only, please!

With a possible exception for describing aeroplane flight levels.

[Grikath]

Re: SI only, please!

aeroplane flight levels are also expressed in meters, as long as you fly with an airline that is not frmo a country that's not still mired in Imperial measurements.

Face it. lads and lasses, worldview aside, imperial is a minority system that's never used by anyone doing something approaching real boffinry, or even spin-cycling, unless from the US.

[SkippyBing]

Re: SI only, please!

Actually the unit to measure flight levels is defined by the air space the aircraft it's in, not where it's from, it tends to avoid the inevitable carnage of your system. I think China and the former Soviet Union are the only places to use metric flight levels and since 2011 Russia uses flight levels that are the equivalent of the Imperial ones, so they use 10350m which is 34000' or FL 340.

The aircraft themselves are free to measure altitude and flight levels in whatever manner they desire, but for certification purposes airliners have to have an altimeter that reads in feet or meters and I suspect the larger ones can display in either.

[b166er]

I have the solution to the pint problem.

Measure them out as 500ml (or half-litre (yes that's another argument entirely, litre or liter)) servings, but call them pints (Imperial ones, natch (another argument, sheesh)) and outlaw anyone from filing a legal complaint that their 'pint' is actually only 500ml.

In fact, if anyone ever complains that their 'pint' is only 500ml, have them taken away to the stocks (in the beer garden) and publicly humiliated.

Let it therefore pass into the lexicon that a pint is in fact 500ml; problem solved.

Oh and the price must also drop accordingly. (I know, i know, porcine aviators, frozen wastes of Hades)

Whatever would we do with all the pint glasses?

[b166er]

BTW, when did the SPB masthead get all Mulder?

[JimmyPage]

or alternatively

why not sell people 568ml when they ask for "a pint" ?

[b166er]

Re: or alternatively

Well, that would work too :D

Just wouldn't be standardised as per the implied original intention.

Plus, perhaps, people who have drinking issues might end up consuming less.

[Red Bren]

Re: or alternatively

People who have drinking issues need to consume more!

[A J Stiles]

Old pint glasses

We could scribe a line at 500ml,. leaving a 68ml. oversize for those who like a head on their beer.

[Dr. Mouse]

"Whatever would we do with all the pint glasses?"

Keep them. Then we could actually get the beer we pay for with a head, rather than having to sacrifice beer for the head.

I love it at beer festivals. Get half pints in a pint glass, and they give you half a pint of beer plus a head on top. A nice, large, frothy head is great to drink the beer through, and you don't mind because you are getting what you paid for. Similarly, when I drink my own homebrew, there's no "topping up". Plenty of froth, leave it to settle a bit and drink.

IMHO all beer should be served in oversized glasses with a measurement mark. Otherwise, you always get less than you pay for (either the head is taking up beer space, or the beer is flat: Either way it's not what you are paying for).

[Martin Gregorie]

Metric and ICAO

I'd say use SI units for everything except for aeronautical matters. The exception is because in aviation the use of feet for altitude, nautical miles for distance and knots for speed is universal in powered civilian aircraft.

[Daniel 18]

Re: Metric and ICAO

Unfortunately, you never know if the person giving you the data... or the person who gave them the data... or their source... knows that. And you never know when someone along the way decided to be 'helpful' by converting to a 'better' measurement, in either direction.

[Alister]

Register SPB hacks mull chopping off feet

Well as the aforementioned Reg hacks are regularly legless, a couple of feet should make no difference...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes please...

Imperial to SI conversions and vice versa have been the cause of costly cockups in ESA and NASA programmes... so yes, use SI. Makes sense. The Spanish will be thankful to you. ;-)

[Colin Brett]

Re: Yes please...

"The Spanish will be thankful to you. ;-)"

Que?

Colin

[deive]

I'm with the removal of all imperial!

Plus you can then report "Baumgartner jumped from an altitude of 29,455m (3195.032 ddb)" to start the transition from SI to Reg standards.

[Edmund Green]

SI all the way

If you're going to bite the bullet and go with SI units then you should go all the way and not have any exceptions - the site title says "Sci/Tech News" so hopefully most of us reading it are familier enough with units to be able to convert to something else in those more stubborn scenarios that have been mentioned and maybe even encourage others to use the SI units in these cases.

re: altitude - I'm sure I've heard a pilot announce the altitude in km before now - about 10km seems typical? and OS maps switched their contour lines to metric intervals sometimes around the 1970s I think.

Speed is a tricky one - should you use km per hour or metres per second ....

[A J Stiles]

SI please

SI all the way, please. Even the heights and distances. (It's about time the Americans learned something.)

(41 year old Briton, 171cm., 69kg.)

[I ain't Spartacus]

I blame the parents!

The problem is that while I was taught metric at school, my Dad was a far bigger influence on me than any of my teachers. So despite the fact that I'm just about to hit 40, and had a 'proper' education in the 'correct' scientific units, I mostly think in imperial. Although there's a lot to be said for a 'horses for courses' approach. As our French, SI creating, 'friends' would agree. Although in their case, it's usually horses for main courses...

As someone above said, I often find myself estimating in imperial, but working in metric. So I've been putting up curtains recently, and while that window may be about 4 foot wide, when it comes to actually buying the curtain pole it's 1140mm. I don't know if that's because feet'n'inches are a more 'friendly', 'human scale' measure, of if it's just the way my brain's programmed. But I doubt it's a habit I'll ever break.

When I make a stew, I want about1/4 lb of meat per person. OK, that's near enough 125g, but even after all this time I still often go through the mental process of, 'there's 2.2 lb to the kg, so half a kilo's about a pound, and a quarter of that is 125g'. I guess that's my Dad's training 1 - my brain 0.

When it comes to work, drinking water systems, then it's mostly metric. Why mess about with gallons and pounds, when 1L of water = 1kg and 1,000 L = 1 tonne = 1m³. Even if pipe sizes are an unholy mess of a horrific bodge between 3 or 4 systems.

I worked for my Dad for a few years before he died, and we whiled many a happy hour away insulting each other. From the poor quality of handwriting to his obsession with gallons, when clearly litres is the only acceptable measure for water. Beer comes in pints, by the way, and always will!

I even went to the point of working out water tank sizes in bushels, to prove my point. He just saw it as a challenge, to try and get that size written into someone's building spec.

Anyway, the result of all that rambling is that I propose a proper British compromise. None of this nasty Continental absolutism!

1. Where's there's an accepted standard that almost everyone agrees on, use that. So altitude should be in feet. These are the easy ones.

2. Where we're working with proper science, then we're almost certainly going to be using SI. Anyone who wants to read that should be used to it by now. Give the figures the scientists do, don't bother translating, people can work it out if they want to.

3. Similarly, if you're doing calculations, use the most logical (almost always SI).

4. However this is a mainly British + various Colonials site, so I think a bit of pandering to the prejudices of us grumpy old gits can be allowed. Pints is pints (for beer and milk). I prefer miles, and would prefer you stick to them, but converting from km won't kill me. However people are mostly imperial. I still think most people in the UK give height in feet, and weight in stone. We could compromise on pounds for weight, because Johnny-Foreigner probably doesn't know stone, but can convert from pounds easily, although once we make that compromise, we're all converting except the Americans, so kg is probably acceptable.

Then you only need give both where things are unclear, or you've gone under your word-count, and want to spend extra time in the pub, but are paid by the word and don't want to lose out.

Hope that helps. Sorry for blithering on so long.

[Anonymous Coward]

Could the SPB (all hail their boffinery!) have some HTML5/js-based-voodoo that would do (as DrXym also suggests) conversions on-the-fly?

Obviously, American annoying SI units by default, with mousey-over conversion to preferred batshit-crazy-impractical system

[Richard Gray 1]

Its obvious..

mm for small stuff up to a few cm, then change to inches upto about a foot and a half,

then change to Metres upto about 2000M when we change back to miles.

with liquids, a drop, teaspoon, a splash, tablespoon, glug, a nip, a glass (the standard for a night out I only had a glass of wine one glass multiple fills), a half (for the girls) a pint followed by bottles (wine \spirits) litres for the soft drinks, then to gallons

for weight, grams, from a half a pound to a couple of pounds, then to Kg, followed by heavy, Bugger me and finally F*** ME!

any other weights and measures are irrelevent

I don't see what all the fuss is about..

I do remember selling 80m rolls of 4inch photographic paper so maybe that explains it.

[ukgnome]

As long as you provide a link to THE REG ONLINE STANDARDS CONVERTER then I don't mind.

Although when it comes to distance can you use the simplified version of.

Closer, close, quite far, very far, a long long way.

[Matthew 3]

RE: Closer, close, quite far, very far, a long long way.

"These are SMALL. The ones out there are FAR AWAY..."

[bill 36]

just go for it

The conversions are easy to remember and a little bit of mental arithmetic( who remembers that?)

80km =50mph

1600 metres= 1 mile

4.5 litres= 1 Brit gallon

10C = 50F, 40C = fuckin hot

1 litre = 1 & 3/4 pints

5 litres = pissed

So some of these are approximate but do you really care?

[ChrisBoy]

What about the Wales?

Isn't Wales the simplest standard of measurement? As in "would fit 100 times into Wales" or "is three times the size of Wales"... just re-adapt to "is four times as long as the word 'Wales' printed in 12pt Times or "is six times faster than an object that could reach Cardiff from Swansea in the time it takes the average tourist to learn how to pronounce that place that ends with gogogoth".

Much simpler, and no different between UK and US units because there's (luckily) only one Wales.

[Francis Boyle]

Re: What about the Wales?

I vote for areas in Wales and volumes in whales - what could go wrong?

[burrhall]

Way to go

Time to ditch the old except where common usage really is common and unambiguous e.g. Pints & thousands of feet

... and it will also fix the nonsense of US & Imperial measures ( gallons, pounds, ... ) being different and therefore uncertain even though they have the same name.

It's time for a bit of sanity.

[Ryan Clark]

Yes please

and lose dpi when talking about resolution.

[Dan Paul]

Any more American Bashers need to vent your spleens? Create your own topic!

Lester, is it really necessary to let the American bashing to continue unmoderated?

When I make comments in any forum, I try to make an effort to be reasonably respectful (unless I am personally attacked). Seems like any time anyone posts here with any Americanized spelling, topic, unit of measurement, etc. somebody feels the need to go on the offensive and bash away.

As far as Fahrenheit versus Centigrade/Celcius, I prefer Fahrenheit and all imperial style (Americanized) measurements. I was told by a professor once that what makes a meausrement accurate is the number of dvisions in the scale

IMHO Screw Metric anything. The original reason for it's formal adoption in Europe was to create barriers to trade with the US, just like ISO ratings were. There is no compelling reason to change. Metric serves no better purpose than English/Imperial measurement.

Let the downvotes begin......

[Glenn Booth]

Re: Any more American Bashers need to vent your spleens?

> I was told by a professor once that what makes a meausrement accurate is the number of dvisions in the scale

Said Professor was wrong. Putting more divisions on the scale makes it more precise, not more accurate.

There's a difference.

[Daniel 18]

Re: Any more American Bashers need to vent your spleens? Create your own topic!

The reason the metric system was adopted in Europe was that it made no sense for each country to have its own measurement system, all different. It was adopted by the French in 1795, and by virtue of its obvious advantages, gradually spread through Euorpe.

By 1875 two thirds of Europe had adopted the metric system. At that time it is extremely unlikely that trade with the United States was a significant consideration. At that point, the only major European countries not using metric measurement were Britain and Russia.

There are now only three coutries that don't (visibly) use metric, and of them, the US is the only highly industrialized one. Most US industry is, of course, converted to metric, but they don't mention the fact to consumers. Given growing global trade, metric measurement continues to be the best way to go.

[Alan Esworthy]

Meh

I grew up with English units and learned Metric as well at an early age. I work with both and can think in either. If I were uncharitable I'd say that caring deeply about this question is a symptom of mental deficiency. But I am charitable so I'll say that caring deeply about this question simply a likely error in prioritisation.

[Steve Hosgood]

Metric all the way please

As many others have commented - S.I makes far more sense for a tech-orientated website such as this. Don't bother with silly exceptions either like pints of beer or miles.

And certainly not stones for body weight - I mean, really, is anyone who's actually keeping note of their weight still doing that in stones? Weighing machines in the gyms and leisure centres of the UK have been in kilos for years, likewise the ones in hospitals and doctors' surgeries.

I agree with the poster above who pointed out that we ought to switch to having the line on our beer glasses redrawn at 500mL, but to keep the size of the glassware the same. A proper head on our real ale without being short-measured would be a pleasure. I hear that certain pub chains teach their staff how to game the beer "top up" law so as to try and serve deliberate short measures wherever possible (to the pub chain's profit of course).

But - hey - this is getting off topic since it's not common for El. Reg stories to be about beer anyway.

So I chuck my vote in with the "just do it in S.I metric units" brigade.

Oh, 53 yrs old, 1.72 m tall, 66 kg in case you were wondering.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Metric all the way please

I'm 45, 6 ft 2 and 13 stone, but I suspect the units thing would come between us.

[Big_Boomer]

SI for Science, whatever you like for everything else

LOHAN should be entirely SI as it's Science. The same should go for any other Scientific articles on The Reg. But, if the article is about exploding Bulgarian Airbags then any appropriate (or even inappropriate) measure is fine. Oh, and ASU (American Standard Units) are not the same as Imperial. Some are the same, some are not.

Me I quite happily work in whatever units are needed. If I need to convert, I convert. It's kinda like the EU where lots of different languages just makes it more interesting. Efficiency is VASTLY overrated.

As for NASA, well they measure everything based on the width of 2 horses arses. <LOL>

[Glenn Booth]

LOHAN is science?

> LOHAN should be entirely SI as it's Science

LOHAN is science in the same way that Megan Fox is ugly.

LOHAN is brilliant, inspired, and great fun. But it ain't science.

[Martin 47]

Of course everything should be in SI units, that includes aircraft height, speed, etc etc Its not as if any pilot is going to use a reg article to navigate by is it?

Right I am just off down the builders merchant as I need a couple of metres of 4 by 2

[Elmo Fudd]

Personally it's tire sizes that drive me bonkers, just bought 4 snow tires (Canada),

225-70-15' s -- 225 mm wide, 70% ratio for 15 INCH rims

Is it just me that finds this absurd?

[Daniel 18]

Yup.

That should definitely be 225-70-38.

[DDS112097]

Meters versus Yards

What the hell is the point of Google? For Pete's sake we are all internet savy, I think we can convert from metric.

[oceanhippie]

yes, know more

Knots/Nautical Miles, and especially the Beaufort scale, yes.

In the pub any unit, providing the sig figs and errors are smaller than the jesticulations of the speaker, are not only acceptable but preferred.

But for anything that matters, SI or interchageble eqivs, kg for weight, Celsius for Kelvin are just fine - nobody will mess them up.

Pints, just as soon as a self cooling pint glass, of comparable price and Northern Territories proof. In fact Territorian proof is

created, I will gladly revert to my Pinty instincts but till then I'll keep to smaller ones that stay cold longer.

Oh dear did I mention the mass/weight thing oops..