Gov confirms plans for Sky box in charge of your house The government has announced the results of its consultation with the public and other interested parties on plans for "smart" energy meters to be installed in all British homes and businesses. The most controversial aspects of the devices - the fact that they will effectively allow remote control of a home by energy companies …
What if your off all the grids? like we are?
Some 37 yrs ago I wanted somewhere to live and work, without neibours, found a place derelict , with no road, no water no anything.
suited me just fine, We provide all our own services, but still pay rates, worse luck, but were independent.
Had a chap come round many yrs ago to read the e meter. Told him we were so far away from mains we didnt need one. He insisted we did, we insisted we didnt.
eventually put him out of his misery by asking him to listen, the generator was running just then and he could just hear it.
Lister 6/1 2.5kw.startamatic then, now an sr2, 5kw set coupled to an outback system with 1 ton of alcad batteries. Next yrs project is a wind generator and solar hot water panels.
So were the odd ones out , with no meters of any sort.
Like it that way.
so they're going to install by force (through legislation) a device into my house that will monitor what I do (what time I'm in/how many people are here/what kind of devices I'm using). this device will be linked to a central network somewhere where it will update this data in real time and send back updates/etc - some of which I'll be able to view on a digital display.
all they need to do is install a two way mic and 1984 will finally be here.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/02/lhc_power_failure_again/
Apparantly the cause of the above was that Tracy in the PowerCo call centre thought that their kettle may have stuck in the on position so she decided to help out by remotely killing the power via the smart meter.
>>This will be good for the power/gas supply business, think of the money saved when they sack all those meter readers.
>Good isnt it? Less expenses means cheaper prices. It also means I dont get massivly over\under changed for my useage and have to take half a day off to let a random guy come into my home and read a meter.
Of course these cost savings are going to be passed on to the consumer...Wake up! I would guess you are not a meter reader with a family to support. And how many times have you taken time off work to allow someone access to your home to read a meter? Have you never filled in a little card and posted it back?
>>I guess the next step after the install of these smart meters will be laws ensuring that all white goods, televisions, computers and other consumer electrical goods have an interface that can communicate via the mains supply to these smart meters.
>Because asking your fridge to delay activating the compressor during peak usage is a bad thing?
Did I suggest such? I was hinting at compulsory spyware in the hardware.
>>our fridge/freezer by scanning the RFID tags in packaging will know what it contains and so will those monitoring your meter.
>This already happens. Got a Tesco club card, or a Nectar card? Wonder how Tesco can 'fill' your online basket from your normal usage on the very first time you log onto their site? Hell, you dont even need their store card as you can be tied with your bank card. Why would you bog down the power system with this meaningless data?
No I don't supply Tesco or Nectar partners with my data. I have never visited the Tesco website. Don't have a Tesco nor Nectar card. At this time I have choice. I consider Tesco and Nectar cards spyware. And no, I wouldn't, given a choice, bog down the system with this data, but those who have access and control of this system may feel different and just because the bandwidth may not be there to monitor all households at this time doesn't mean it won't be at some point in the future.
> >Your television will be able to report what is being displayed on screen, perhaps even supplying a feed back along the mains.
>Sky\Virgin already log everything you watch. As for a live stream back along the mains? Why have millions of houses streaming BBC 1 back to the provider. And on what magic bandwith will this be happening?
Did I say anything about streaming back to the provider? A Dword would probably suffice, and no I don't use Sky or Virgin and never will.
>>All use of electricity, and gas will be monitored
>So like it is now? You know, to charge you for what you use?
Not in real time nor is which device is in use is being reported, only how much is used over a three month period.
>>Am I paranoid? Is this a ridiculous suggestion?
>Yes.
That's your opinion and judging by your response to my thoughts on this matter the populace of the UK who think the way you do will just blindly accept it. I did state in my title that this was just another step toward the total monitoring of the UK populace. I repeat a STEP.
>Now the cut off feature I'm against. Given a cort[sic] order has to be involved in the process, you might as well send a bod round to do the cutting.
Why? from your own view point this only costs more money and a reduction in cost can be passed on to the consumer. So a remote cutoff is a positive.
>>If you need to stop power for reasons like lack of generation, then you'd do a rolling brown out well up stream of the end user anyway.
Beyond my knowledge, I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough to respond or know what you are talking about.
>But transmitting what electricty[sic] im[sic] using back to the grid provider? Nah, thats fine. Smart devices that don't power up at peak times and thus saving me cash? Sure thing.
Devices like your kettle, TV, cooker, server, water boiler etc, etc?
>Also think about what that data can do for you and your household.
My household runs just fine without that data, I am very happy in my ignorance of that data, I don't leave devices powered up that I am not using including lighting. This data is pointless to me.
There may or not be a conspiracy amongst those in power to have full visibility and total control of the populace, but this is a step in that direction regardless of what you may think the benefits may be. Until we get a benevolent leadership as opposed to a leadership who's main concern is holding on to power and making themselves rich and even more powerful I will never trust such technology. Do you really think this has been approved for altruistic reason? When has a commercial interest ever thought this will be beneficial for the consumer let us implement it despite the cost? Until all the greedy bastard megalomaniac ideals that lead businesses and run the government are removed or replaced I will never trust the system. I will be dead before the potential nightmare future we are heading for becomes a reality. Unfortunately my children and their children won't.
Basically I am as off the grid as is possible in todays technological invasion into every persons life, I want to and will remain that way as long as I can.
If the utility companies really will have the capability to limit or cut off energy using these meters, I'm willing to bet one thing : That the David Beckham & John Prescotts of this world won't be the ones being 'managed'. It'll be us - the bloody serfs first. You can bet your house on it.
What, rich people won't get cut off for not paying their bills? Or will the rich people actually not be cut off for not not paying their bills?
or
Do you mean that any appliances that are to be switched off or not on, due to times of peak load, would only be those of poor people? In which case, this is hardly likely, if they've got the meters and the equipment setup to talk to them.
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If the technology gets the numpty energy suppliers in UK (for overseas readers that means ALL UK energy suppliers) up off their fat porky rumps to do something about the abhorrence and abuse of the poor and energy poverty then it will be a step in the correct direction.
Most be surprised to learn that the people traditionally paying most in energy costs are the poorest in the country.
It is a remarkable Labour achievement of which the Tories are deeply envious?
Paris: because she knows what beauty is and how people with hearts of clay can make such an awfully, dull and destructive influence on the lives of many/
they'll have lost the other cash cow too! Perhaps then we'll all be taxed on notional cigarettes. Even the kids can have those (without cause for concern, that is), so they can charge us the tax on a pack of twenty for every member of the family. We could hardly object, seeing as how healthy notional cigarettes are.
I suspect with the juice - if generated by nukes, as opposed to fossil fuels, for which we would still be paying the carbon tax anyway - we can offset the shortfall by each looking after a lump of spent uranium for them.
They could stuff it up our arses. It would have the beneficial side effect of providing us with a portable reading lamp!
How hard would it to be to have a little device inside that could serve double duty as a microphone? Then you could have remote monitoring of the house occupants too.
Already, millions of people have one of a small range of modem routers supplied by the major ISPs with bespoke firmware. One can see how having a large part of the population using a standard networked box could be exploited.... upon authorisation, of course.
Mind you, most of us have landlines telephone handsets that would probably do just as well.
One can see how the paranoid could get very worked up about these things.
How much power the meters themselves consume. I imagine it is a fair whack more than the tiny amount of energy it takes to spin the tiny analogue meters wheels. Especially if it contains a modern processor, networking gear etc.
Also how much energy is it going to cost to produce these. And who pays for these nuggets of modern oppressive technology? OOOHHH we do. Thats right, the government says we all must install these as a matter of law. How conveinient for the few official manufacturers that all of the politicians and their friends just so happen to have money invested in.
I am going to move out of this country so soon its not even funny. When the government and technology combine to oppress people in an endemic fashion its time to move on to another country where my taxes are used to BENEFIT people.
Honestly I reckon we should all just boycott the uk and jump ship to the mediterranean. France and Spain seem to have a much greater realisation of what a government should be. Toothless and ineffectual and most of all, INEXPENSIVE.
But think about it for a moment. In normal operation, demand management works by reducing demand within certain parameters defined by the houselder or the device - they're not going to shut down your fridge completely but they may defer its cycle kicking in for 5 or 10 minutes to smooth the load.
In the extreme case of a catastrophic supply failure such as a black out, if end users can be shut down remotely and then progressively brought back online, you can restore power much more quickly.
What's the benefit of demand management to you the householder? By smoothing out demand, less plant is required to generate our electricity at peak times (very inefficient, very expensive). It also enables a much higher penetration of renewables on the grid (something Lewis is very scared of). This will keep costs down and allow for a much more flexible, diverse electricity supply.
that this is timed to coincide roughly with the time that we will face power shortages due to the gap between decommissioning old power generation plants and the building of new power generation plants (if we ever get round to it. Thanks, BTW, Greentards. Lots of blocking power station building but NO fuckin practical alternatives. Wankers.)
That and all the juicy control you will have over people.
So just let me recap - see if i've got this right: Our government is putting direct control over the power supply in our home to, amongst others, the French government (EDF) and the other foreign power companies that own our utilities.
Whilst they harvest lots of information about us and then sell it on to the highest bidder.
We are royally fucked in this cuntry.
Like all this governments consultations, they know the answer before asking the question and then they only ask very, very quietly so you don't know the "consultation" exercise is actually being held.
The last 11 years have seen the complete dismantling of the democratic process and has left us with a load of crooks and liars to tell us what we can and can't do and how much we are going to be charged for the privilege of doing it.
It’s time to get rid of this extremely dangerous bunch of politicians who pretend to represent us based upon a non-existent mandate. The problem is, who do we replace them with? Can’t see a genuine candidate anywhere.
Note how the left and the green lobby no longer uses the term 'global warming'. This is due to the not widely publicised fact global temperatures despite the hysterical and doom-laden predictions, actually stopped rising at the end of the last century. Current dogma is based on flawed science, which not only threatens future prosperity, but also condemn both us and our children to a lower standard of living.
'Climate Change' is simply an invention to enable central government can impose new taxes, new surveillance and a further level of bureaucracy to suit a Socialist totalitarianism of control, repression and government inference in every aspect of our lives.
Remote meter reading is very big in the States and has been for years.
One of the plans afoot was to use Zigbee networks for devices.
In the USA one major idea was to turn off Air Conditioning in empty houses/apartments at the hottest times of the day thus saving a lot of wasted energy.
With a full zigbee enabled household, using your remote control you could connect back to your house via the zigbee network and turn things off and on, naturally the power companies would have master access!
NuLab gets most of its ideas from the States but doesn't really understand them and therefore botches everything they touch.
My old company designed and built meter monitoring equipment, some of which could also turn off services, most useful in the water market where proper monitoring could shut down a pipe to a leak saving often scarce supplies. Naturally not taken up in the UK!
Unfortunately add ons to existing meters were ruled out for the UK market by this government ensuring that it is a very limited choice of supply as it has to be the complete Smart meter and all the old meters are obsolete.
The other major problem is the governments breakdown of our utility supply companies, Why should company A invest in better meters when the customer can immediately switch to company B, who are cheaper as they haven't invested in new meters, with no penalty etc.? Thus no incentive has put us back several years so it may be new to the UK market but it is already in place elsewhere.
Taking your meter reader as an example, in the UK it has to visit every house, climb in a cupboard, transcribe the reading into the handheld, whereas in the US, a meter reader gets in a car, fires up the laptop with a Sat Nav route plan, which is followed driving at up to 50 mph, reading every modified utility meter on the route. Problem meters or those showing signs of tamper are highlighted and can get personal attention. At the end of the route a quick file transfer and the meter readings are all in the Utilities database!
This is not in real time, hence the move towards zigbee networking etc.
With regards to Gas, I assume the idea is similar to our old water monitoring plan where usage was to be monitored and when it stepped outside certain parameters it raised alarms. Human beings would then investigate and if necessary disable the supply whilst further investigations were undertaken.
Unfortunately as with all these good ideas, it is a lot cheaper to miss out the human interaction aspect.... and the investigation.... so we all now how they will be implemented, however rest assured there will be need for management committees to review and administer the results so all will not be lost.
Compulsory smart metering needs a compulsory "always on" comms link. Whether this is to be provided via the electricity feed to the premises, or via the more conventional coms access network, it can only be good news for the provision of universal broadband access throughout the country, especially in remote or rural areas. Every cloud...........etc.
