back to article Hole blasted in Guntrader: UK firearms sales website's CRM database breached, 111,000 users' info spilled online

Criminals have hacked into a Gumtree-style website used for buying and selling firearms, making off with a 111,000-entry database containing partial information from a CRM product used by gun shops across the UK. The Guntrader breach earlier this week saw the theft of a SQL database powering both the Guntrader.uk buy-and-sell …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No great shakes.

        >>>Handguns have been banned in the UK for many years. The only people who have them are already criminals.

        Careful. You'll have the pistol fetishists up in arms over that comment. (Those Brits who are jealous about Americans' 2nd Amendment rights are easily triggered.)

        1. J. Cook Silver badge

          Re: No great shakes.

          Those Brits who are jealous about Americans' 2nd Amendment rights are easily triggered

          I see what you did there. :D

        2. Eclectic Man Silver badge

          Re: No great shakes.

          I thought there was an exemption for 'historical weapons'? Also it is the length of the weapon that matters. I knew someone who legally had a handgun, which had an arm brace fitted so that was over a specific minimum length, and therefore legal. I suspect that it could easily be modified to fit in a large-ish pocket in a jacket.

          https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/circular-0012021-antique-firearms/circular-0012021-antique-firearms-regulations-2021-and-the-policing-and-crime-act-2017-commencement-no11-and-transitional-provisions-regulations

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      @AC

      "Mmmm! and now the criminals know where they can get guns"

      There are plenty of guns around for the criminals. Its the law abiding that go through the many hoops of insanity.

      1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

        Re: @AC

        A typically well argued post from you. It's unfathomable how anyone in the UK, as you clearly are, can look across the atlantic and draw the conclusion that gun licensing requirements in the UK are too onerous.

      2. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: @AC

        If you are law abiding then you won't have that many problems obtaining a firearm for a lawful purpose.

        If you just "want a gun" though then yes, you shall no doubt find innumerable and impassible obstacles that keep firearms out of your hands.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: @AC

          @Peter2

          "If you are law abiding then you won't have that many problems obtaining a firearm for a lawful purpose."

          Not many problems being relative in a slow process (according to the guys I used to shoot with anyway) which requires approval from a force not really happy with issuing licenses so will look for any minor problem to delay or reject an application. Assuming things are still as bad as a few years ago. That being for target shooting not shotguns however (which I believe to be a little easier).

          The amusing/irritating problem in the UK is the ban on hand guns which makes an olympic sport illegal.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC

            "The amusing/irritating problem in the UK is the ban on hand guns which makes an olympic sport illegal."

            Have you considered moving to the US of A as you've got such an obvious gun kink, Hmm ? It might be right up your alley.

            1. Frank Fisher

              Re: @AC

              Or the Czech Republic which has just recognised that self defence isn't a "kink" but is a basic human right and has updated its constitution accordingly.

              I have never understood this kneejerk fear and hatred of firearms. You might just as well despise scissors.

              1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

                Re: @AC

                "I have never understood this kneejerk fear and hatred of firearms."

                After the Dunblane massacre of schoolchildren*, and other fatal shootings in the UK, people wondered what need there was for handguns in this country, and they were in general banned.

                It is a very different culture and environment in the UK compare to the USA. We don't have many dangerous wild animals where a gun would be necessary for self-defence, and hunting is confined to relatively small areas of privately owned land for grouse shooting and deer stalking. Farmers may shoot 'vermin' on their land, or domestic dogs or wild animals that are harassing their sheep or livestock, but generally people in the UK do not need guns for self-defence purposes.

                *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre the tennis player Andy Murray was a pupil there at the time of the shooting.

                1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

                  Re: @AC

                  > It is a very different culture and environment in the UK

                  British Policeman: "Stop! Or I'll....shout 'Stop!' again!"

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: @AC

                    US Policeman: BLAM!

                2. Cederic Silver badge

                  Re: @AC

                  What annoyed many of us at the time was the kneejerk reactionary banning of handguns that inhibits many people in this country from enjoying a fun hobby (along with the additional complications for other hobbies) when Hamilton shouldn't have been allowed guns under the previous legislation anyway.

                  I like guns. I grew up in military environments, I know how to handle them, I enjoy shooting them, they offer tremendous tactile feedback and shooting is one of the few sports I'm any good at.

                  But no, nanny state fears its citizens.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: @AC

                    >>I grew up in military environments~

                    What does that actually mean? You lived on Salisbury Plain?

                    >>I enjoy shooting them, they offer tremendous tactile feedback~

                    Scary comment.

                    >>>and shooting is one of the few sports I'm any good at.

                    Sport without the need for physical fitness. Like bowling? Maybe that's why handguns are do popular in the US!

                  2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

                    Re: @AC

                    Why wouldn't you fear your citizens? I've met a few; most are fine but there are enough that aren't to cause a problem. Forcing you to switch to a .177 air pistol for your target shooting - still entirely legal in the UK - to try and save even a few lives from idiots with guns seems a good trade to me.

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: @AC

                      @Androgynous Cupboard

                      "Forcing you to switch to a .177 air pistol for your target shooting - still entirely legal in the UK - to try and save even a few lives from idiots with guns seems a good trade to me."

                      An air pistol .177 or .22 is not the same as firing a live ammunition gun. I have fired a black powder pistol and its still not the same. Why dont we force everyone to drive electric peddle bikes to save a few lives? Seems a stupid trade to me.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: @AC

                        >>Why dont we force everyone to drive electric peddle bikes to save a few lives? Seems a stupid trade to me.

                        Scissors. Peddle(sic) bikes. If you can't understand these are false equivalences then you shouldn't be allowed ANYWHERE near firearms. Perhaps go play soldiers with some airsoft toys to legally quench your desires. Or head over to the US where you can sate your firearms needs very easily without breaking or moaning about our English rules/laws.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge

                          Re: @AC

                          @AC

                          "If you can't understand these are false equivalences then you shouldn't be allowed ANYWHERE near firearms"

                          And isnt this the problem. People making false equivalences such as the comparison of guns to air guns. Yet such false equivalences are accepted while comparing to anything else causes cries from those who dont know the difference, and even worse dont like things compared to what they have in every day life.

                          "Perhaps go play soldiers with some airsoft toys to legally quench your desires."

                          Again this is another false equivalence and I can only assume you havnt fired any form of gun toy or otherwise. Yet somehow its ok to compare shooting with 'playing soldiers' and 'air soft'. Entirely different things that you dont seem able to tell the difference. Airsoft is great fun, as is paintball, but only a child thinks its the same as shooting.

                          "Or head over to the US where you can sate your firearms needs very easily without breaking or moaning about our English rules/laws."

                          If thats your opinion of debate in the country then maybe you should move to N.Korea where you dont discuss the percieved rights and wrongs of a countries laws.

                          1. Anonymous Coward
                            Anonymous Coward

                            Re: @AC

                            >>where you dont discuss the percieved rights and wrongs of a countries laws.

                            Definitely get yourself over to the US. You'd love it. All your firearms fantasies available 24/7. And it's cheap too. (Well the .40 rounds for a Glock 22 are pricey. But hey, it's all about the thrill. Am I right?!)

                            1. codejunky Silver badge

                              Re: @AC

                              @AC

                              "Definitely get yourself over to the US. You'd love it."

                              It is a nice country to visit. I like the UK though so will stay thanks.

                              "But hey, it's all about the thrill. Am I right?!"

                              No. Completely wrong. But then you dont seem to know what you are talking about so far so I guess you should call it quits while your behind (not that I expect you will, you seem to think you know something for some reason).

                              1. Anonymous Coward
                                Unhappy

                                Re: @AC

                                Aww. You shot me down there. Whatever will I do.

              2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

                Re: @AC

                But a gun is designed to kill. That's all it's for, and it's all it does. So in that sense, a gun - or for that matter a tank, or a cluster bomb, or a landmine - is very different to scissors, isn't it? And of all of these machines for efficient killing, only the gun has been turned into an object of worship, so much so that people literally take them to church without even noticing the irony.

                I realise it's not the whole country, and I've largely enjoyed my occasional visits. But with people loving their guns and hating tax-funded healthcare and COVID vaccines, there are times that parts of the good old US of A resemble a high-functioning death cult.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: @AC

                  That is not all they are for. There is [was in the UK] an entire sport of target shooting based around guns. Target shooting is/was enjoyed for the self-discipline and skills it fostered - we even had a fairly decent Olympic squad.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: @AC

                    Your average gun fan is more about getting excited about having a Glock 22.*

                    Ooooh I'm gettin' a warm tingly feeling just sayin' the word...

                    *Other handguns to get off about are available.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: @AC

                      I suspect the viewpoint of an "average fan" would be heavily biased towards the viewpoint from countries where gun ownership is widespread and value is predominantly focussed on 'combat' situations - so in that respect your comment might be right. In other places the craftsmanship of a gun and a different set of aesthetics may dominate - and would lead to different preferences.

                      Behaviours with respect to guns look to vary widely across nationalities. Some countries with widespread gun ownership maintain very low rates of gun violence - others have more of a problem.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        1. This post has been deleted by its author

                        2. This post has been deleted by its author

                          1. Anonymous Coward
                            Anonymous Coward

                            Re: @AC

                            But are we agreed, the Glock and all other similar handguns are popular but were not created out of a need to be cool 'n' sexy, but from a need for "When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfcuker in the room." ? (Or, given the circumstances of the above article link, the violent perps making a murderous getaway.)

                            1. Anonymous Coward
                              Anonymous Coward

                              Re: @AC

                              I would agree that cool 'n' sexy was probably not the reason for creating the Glock and similar handguns - though they do often incorporate styling that customers often appreciate. I would also agree to it being undesirable for guns to be regarded as a cool 'n' sexy accessory, whilst still acknowledging that styling can be appreciated.

                              I also find the US's preoccupation with firearms for self-defence bewildering and ultimately self-defeating; but IMO they have got themselves into an awkward spot and there are no easy solutions.

                              1. Anonymous Coward
                                Anonymous Coward

                                Re: @AC

                                Not agreement as such, but some common ground there.

              3. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: @AC

                "I have never understood this kneejerk fear and hatred of firearms. You might just as well despise scissors."

                Stupidest comment of the week. Go have a beer and think about what you typed. Sidearms are for killing people. No one has killed 16 school children in cold blood with scissors. You utter plonker.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC

            Heck, I don't even have a license. I "just wanted a gun"[1] so I went into the local sporting goods store and bought one. A shitty one. So shitty, I discovered the trigger hits the frame, so you can't actually shoot it without filing things. What do you expect for $110 brand new, though? Apparently Smith & Wesson are the Hewlett-Packard of the gun world. The ammo was so cheap, it was aluminiumium cases instead of brass.

            [1] actually it's for if I ever for an instant suspect I have Alzheimer's or other form of old-age dementia. Terry Pratchett put a steady face up, but I'm not.

            1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

              Re: @AC

              "actually it's for if I ever for an instant suspect I have Alzheimer's or other form of old-age dementia. Terry Pratchett put a steady face up, but I'm not."

              Steady on, old chap. At least get a second opinion before doing anything irretrievable.

              Sir Terry lasted quite a while with his, and still had lots of fun, and Michael J Fox isn't doing too badly with his early onset Parkinsons.

  1. Warm Braw Silver badge

    Investigating a security breech

    At least there's a reasonable excuse for the typo on this occasion.

  2. Herring`

    Two sides of the pond

    Here in UKia, people realise you're more likely to be targeted by criminals if they know you have a gun.

    I'm not anti-gun BTW. I know farmers who have firearms. Our system where you can have a gun if a) you have a reasonable use for one and b) you're not a nutcase, well that seems fair.

  3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Solution

    Let's wait for a knee jerk reaction from the government.

    I bet they'll start with something along the line that websites in the UK will not longer be able to store personal data on in-house databases and they'll have to use new government API that will authenticate and securely keep sensitive info.

    This way it for sure will not be hacked and no donor company will make billions implementing that inevitable car crash.

    1. Ken G
      Facepalm

      Re: Solution

      See the article on Government IT projects...

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Solution ... Future Problem Solved with Presentation of Bounty Squared ...

      ..and Rightly Shared Freely with All

      Let's wait for a knee jerk reaction from the government. .... elsergiovolador

      Sounds like an excellent plan, elsergiovador, and seconded here.

      A responsible government would engage and make contact with perceived drivers .... with Immaculate Source Providers ..... Mined Core Assets ....... akin to an Almighty Tool Kit for Heavenly Use and Hellish Abuse in Service and Surrender and Submission to Heavenly Perfection .......which is only one in a Vast See of Perfecting Drivers for Virtually Advanced IntelAIgent Operating Systems Sparking and Sporting Almighty Interested Attention.

      :-) Would you deny that is Heavenly Property Granting GODlike Rights and Adorable Attractions to Beta Test Prime Primordial Primeval Force Responses .....for the Quantum Leap into Novel Greater Virtualised Games Fields Tuned to Perform to XSSXXXX Codes of Endeavour for Immaculate Reward.

    3. NonSSL-Login

      Re: Solution

      Outsourced to Crapita...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "... investigating a security breech ..."

    I see what they did there!

  5. devin3782

    The hefty safes are fine but who needs a plasma cutter? https://xkcd.com/538/

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "the most safe and secure gun register system on today's market."

    The last part appears to be correct.

  7. Gene Cash Silver badge
    Coat

    "completely untargeted"

    "Isn't that ironic.. don't you think?"

    --Alanis Morrisette

  8. TFL
    Boffin

    An iframe? Really?

    I would *love* to see how an iframe running on someone else's site could lead to a database on my site getting leaked all over the net.

    The likely explanation is a SQL injection on their own site, as someone viewing it in an iframe should not have any extra privileges on the guntrader's own site where the code runs.

    1. pip25

      Re: An iframe? Really?

      I think an iframe can indeed be employed in certain scenarios to make use of the logged-in user's privileges without their knowledge. But unless that user is an admin, I also don't see how that could lead to the DB getting dumped, at least by itself. There is probably a lot more to this hack that we weren't told about.

    2. NonSSL-Login

      Re: An iframe? Really?

      I wondered if there was an iframe on their site that took content from another site and the other site was hacked and the code put in there, so it was executed as if on the same domain.

      Or it was a RFI and a message was sent to the admin that did something similar.

  9. Bob McBobface

    Cue confirmation bias all round....

    There are plenty and sufficient laws for the regulation of gun ownership... but.

    Anti gun lobby will rant about those that ignore/circumvent/aren't enforced

    Gun owners will point out that they are required to jump through many many hoops to legally enjoy their pastime.

    No-one will change their point of view.

    ....and repeat...

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