Capita's bespoke British Army recruiting IT cost military 25k applicants after switch-on

Capita's 2017 decision to implement bespoke IT systems on a £1.3bn British Army recruiting contract led to nearly 25,000 fewer applications to join the military in the following year, new figures have revealed. The switching-on of bespoke Defence Recruiting System (DRS) IT systems contributed to the lowest number of wannabe …

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: When I was young...

Well they wouldn't be very busy because you're not going to get a stream of people queing to join the army but 1 recruit to them is probably equivalent to a thousand shoppers at Tesco.

As for terrorist targets , well yes, but then anything was a target for the IRA. Ask the parents of the children those psychopaths blew up.

[herman]

Re: When I was young...

Also, I would think that many recruits are unable to read and handle a web application. (I am an ex-army officer, so I know what the quality of recruits are like!)

[sniperpaddy]

Re: When I was young...

Projecting much?

Youngsters these days are very familiar with standard browser-based UI's.....unless it is badly designed.

[Templogin]

Re: When I was young...

Perhaps this ex-officer might like to go forth and inspect a few war memorials and contemplate the quality of those who died.

[Anonymous Coward]

Next step: outsource the whole military to Capita...

... they know well how to find low-paid recruits.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Next step: outsource the whole military to Capita...

Just conscript Crapita staff...

[Version 1.0]

Re: Next step: outsource the whole military to Capita...

Just conscript Crapita management...

FTFY

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Next step: outsource the whole military to Capita...

The medical hospitals would be full of soldiers with holes in their feet..

[macjules]

Re: Next step: outsource the whole military to Capita...

We would end up with a new definition of BYOD - Bring Your Own Defence

[Ashto5]

Re: Next step: outsource the whole military to Capita...

When they attack the safest place will be directly in front of them

[Alpy]

Large outsourcing is dead within UK Gov...

...and this project should be a visible reminder why!

DRS has been a disaster and the horse needs to be put to rest. Between a several year delays in the application being completed (debate exists to this day if that it is actually complete!), huge overspend, and a system that has clearly crippled the recruitment processes of all services, it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest.

The 2019 Army figures looked good due to a significant reduction in target and the near but damn it, removal of any real entry barrier into the Army. It's not something to be proud of in hindsight.

I hear that Capita are also looking to extend the contract further from 2022 into 2024 as part of AFRP (Armed Forces Recruitment Program). Madness.

[Pascal Monett]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

I'm sorry, what's the problem with waterfall ? Is it because it is a system that has given valuable results since the beginning of IT ?

Don't be mistaken, I'm pretty sure that if Capita had used today's super-trendy Agile approach, it would have produced the same amount of turd.

The problems start with the specifications : get that wrong and it doesn't matter how you code, you'll get garbage in the end.

[Robert Grant]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

The problems start with the specifications : get that wrong and it doesn't matter how you code, you'll get garbage in the end

Imagine a process that didn't pretend specifications could be got right up front, but started early, and iterated. What a good idea.

[TheMeerkat]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

You mean a situation when Capita does not even have to deliver anything at the end because it was never specified up front that something has to be delivered on a specific day?

I am sure Capita will love it.

[Robert Grant]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

Because specifying that something should be delivered in two years is more reliable than seeing progress every 4 weeks? Sounds like you're having a nice dream.

[Glen 1]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

My understanding is that the point of the new(ish) trendy agile canban woowoo is that it *expects* changes in specifications, and tries to factor them in.

The problem being that if the changes never stop (because, say, the folks in charge don't know what they're doing), then neither does the project. That suits Crapita all the way to the shareholders meeting.

Not sure if that's the case in this specific instance, but have seen it happen elsewhere. A manager sees the new shiny, and suddenly its a "must have".

[Boris the Cockroach]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

The problem is not crapita, but the contracts signed by the civil service to crapita.

Because there'll be a change in minister with a "wouldn't it be good if xxx was added to the system", with the civil service drawing up a new spec and handing it to crapita who then charge an arm and a leg for the varience on the contract.

And then outsourcing the work to the cheapest job shop they can find, and pocket the change.

Followed by offering the minister's wife/children/cousins a job

[You aint sin me, roit]

Re: it's time this ancient, monolithic, waterfall approach to IT projects are also put to rest

Standard operating procedure... give them the bare minimum that meets the requirements, even (especially) if you know it won't work.

Win the project by tendering below cost because you know you'll make your money on "change requests" to plug the holes in the spec that you knew were there all along, but didn't tell the customer.

Cynical, and you spend more time ensuring that you meet the spec rather than create a quality product, but lucrative.

[amanfromMars 1]

The Magic Money Shot Questions

The contract is due to end in 2022. Although the MoD has the right to use DRS in perpetuity, it must still pay maintenance fees to Capita for the upkeep of the software.

How about MOD upgrades to the software? Is that included in their right to use DRS in perpetuity?

[Mark192]

Re: The Magic Money Shot Questions

I'd expect any change to the system (other than patching for vulnerabilities and bugs) would incur hefty fees.

We had a similar clusterf- with our outsourced system. Ended up junking it -and 'them'- and taking everything in house, hiring people who really knew their stuff and didn't keep fobbing us off with 'working to design'.

Don't know if it was cheaper in-house but, as a user, I saw more stability improvements to the old system in the first month of taking it in-house than the previous bunch had managed in several years.

For such a large organisation, outsourcing something so core to the business doesn't make any sense unless an off-the-shelf product. They should have taken on a board-level IT person that knew their stuff and gone from there.

[Mike 137]

"it must still pay maintenance fees to Capita for the upkeep of the software"

"Upkeep"? You mean "so they might finally get it working properly"?

I'm still amazed everyone just accepts that software will always be delivered in a crap state and require constant fixing until it goes obsolete. Try the same with real estate and see what reaction you get.

[Glen 1]

Re: "it must still pay maintenance fees to Capita for the upkeep of the software"

If I buy a house, didn't get a survey and later discover something wrong with it, it has become *my* problem.

If I *did* get a survey... Is the problem something a surveyor should have spotted? Even If the problem is only discovered 10 years later? 20?

We pays our money and makes our choice.

[Julz]

Re: "it must still pay maintenance fees to Capita for the upkeep of the software"

I think you will find that the survey will be very carefully worded such that there is no legal responsibility taken by the surveyor or their company. They can be useful to get an overall idea of the sate of a property but they are useless as a form of insurance.

I once bought a house which had some off cuts of wood piled up in the cellar coal room. The survey 'usefully' pointed out that it might be a source of wet or dry rot. Well bugger me, who'd of thought. The same survey noted that a sink in one of the bathrooms was a bit crazed and should be replaced. No matter that it was a two hundred year old original fitting and probably worth more than the cost of the survey.

One of the main problems I see is that the fear of speculative litigation and the requirement to maximize profit has undermined one of the original purposes of such things. In our wonderful world, the exact wording of contracts is given much more weight than it's intent, not to mention the moral obligation of suppliers to actually providing usable goods and services. Doing a good job is no longer seen by such firms as part of their reason for being. Probably in part, because however shit their last delivery was seems to have no bearing on whether or not they will get another job in the future, even from the same schmuck.

Can't help thinking that if the only measure that is given any credence is money, then this mess is inevitable.

Bugger me, I think I might be turning French. The horror...

[hairydog]

Re: "it must still pay maintenance fees to Capita for the upkeep of the software"

The valuer (didn't waste money on a survey) queried whether the extension that houses my utility room had planning permission. It was added in 1770.

[AdendHy]

I take issue with "most notorious outsourcing company" descripton... surely there are a number of other candidates for that title? G4S, Serco, Atos to name but a few.

[Anonymous Coward]

25,000 fewer applications to join the military in the following year

I thought this was in line with keeping the UK armed forces down, non? ;)

[Insert sadsack pun here]

Re: 25,000 fewer applications to join the military in the following year

The only possible explanation for Capita's continued existence despite its many failures, commercial underperformance and general shittiness is...it's a Putin-funded plot to bring down the British state from within.

[spacecadet66]

Re: 25,000 fewer applications to join the military in the following year

If I were Putin (which I am not, I am in fact Gülşat Mämmedowa), I wouldn't bother with anything as difficult as plotting. I'd just sit back and let plain old ordinary corruption continue to run its course.

[Trigonoceps occipitalis]

2012

I wonder how the London Olympics would have fared if Capita had been doing military recruiting in the years running up to the event.

[Anonymous Coward]

Do NOT leave out Capita's friends

Any big contract, you know the hideous talons of PA Consulting and McKinsey are there, grabbing every last pound they can. Oracle will be hoovering up what's left.

[Ashto5]

Again & Again & Again

These people are military they can kill you in hundreds of different ways

The others are salesmen and they can rob you in hundreds of different ways

Who thinks letting them negotiate a contract is a good idea ?

Capita has the brains and still keeps coming out on top even when they mess up

Dominic Cummings needs to get a grip of these things and sort them out

[SuperGeek]

Re: Again & Again & Again

"Capita has the brains and still keeps coming out on top even when they mess up"

Really? "has the brains", "capita" and "mess up" in the same sentence? Let me FTFY:

"Capita has NO brains and still keeps coming out on top even when they mess up royally, which is all the time, cause they're a pile of runny brown poo-brains"

There. True to fact!

[Ashto5]

Time for change

It is time that the rendering process included

Previous history

Named people ( so that the same people can’t just change company name)

Decent negotiators NOT civil servants or bullet monkeys

[Chris G]

Re: Time for change

The Rendering Process

Are you suggesting Capita should be boiled down for the fat it contains?

You know, that might just work!

[NeilPost]

£1.3bn WTAF

I’m just staggered that the cost of Aemy recruitment is £1.3bn over 10 years of the contract... with it seemingly only being on and up for the last 5.

You could run a manual system for a fraction of that.... which would you know work. Employ some aged 50+ traditional Personnel Officers to run it.

[AdrianMontagu]

Why aren't Outsourcers held to account?

There have to be repurcusions for such an appalling waste of money. It is simply not good enough to embarrass Capita management in front of the Public Accounts Committee.

There have to be financial penalties written into ALL large Government contracts. Those penalties MUST also have a financial impact upon the management individuals. That is the only way we will bring this ludicrous situation to an end.

[clintos]

Typical capita

they lost the NATS contract due to terrible management. but, it never ceases to amaze me, how paying gov for contracts always gets garbage in the door.

[//DLBL SYSRES]

Does anyone know if Capita have ever delivered a working system, on time and on budget?

[X5-332960073452]

Isn't that a pick any two, but not all three answer?

[x 7]

Capita = Success

Using Capita to run projects such as this is a long established way of cutting government department budgets without announcing cuts.

If you can't recruit staff you don't have to pay them, so cost savings achieved.

Incompetence breeds success, thats why the Tories love the

[Mark Major]

A few smart developers

As always, a team of half a dozen decent developers could have done better, for a fraction of the cost. We're only talking about a dozen applicant web pages, a database and a back-end candidate approval process?

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason they're still in business

Capita are still in business for a handful of fundamental reasons:

the public sector don't talk to each other - they can make an arse of something next door to another 'prospect' and they'll be none the wiser.

accountable stakeholders within their customer base don't want to draw attention to the fetid heap of shit they approved

public sector rarely specify things properly, and when they have drawn up a tender, and bid for it, SIs know the goal posts will have moved by kick-off/transition.

extending on from the previous point, they bid low and 'answer the exam question' because they know they can rinse the customer blind via change control when the customer actually decided what they want, without fear of competition.

[Anonymous Coward]

Applied via AFCO last year

... and ten months later, I'm still in the midst of a to-and-fro with Crapita.

Don't tell me outsourcing works. It clearly doesn't.

[spacecadet66]

So what you're saying with this headline is, Capita has done a public service for once.

[TechHeadToo]

I worked for Capita, briefly. The organisation was driven from the top to be utterly unscrupulous and blind to users needs, to the point of deliberately luring them into bad specifications so they could charge double for changes.

I have watched them since - the departure of the Chief Exec as a sop to be able to say they were all cleaned up. The give capitalism a bad name. It seems that every system they 'somehow' acquire (WHY was he thrown out?, oh yes - suspected bungs to toady politicians)

Disgraceful. As I get older seem to get more right wing. The only answer is really to bring back capital punishment, and asset stripping, as for drug lords.