back to article Blighty: We spent £1bn on Galileo and all we got was this lousy T-shirt

There were heated exchanges at Parliament's Defence and European Scrutiny Committee this week as members attempted to get the Minister for Defence Procurement, Stuart Andrew, to put a figure on the cost of the Galileo project. Andrew did not have the number to hand, which prompted Mark Francois MP to splutter: "Oh come on, …

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    1. RJG

      Re: FFS

      I'll just remind you that those in the top half of the UK voted strongly to stay in the EU.

      And one of the main arguments in the Scottish referendum for staying part of the UK was that if Scotland didn't stay it would be out of the EU.

      Guess how how well those arguments will work next referendum?

      1. seven of five Silver badge

        Re: FFS

        U KOK it was, if I am not mistaken.

        Feel free to implement the ROI/NI border agreement as soon as you like along the river tweed and welcome back. (And pass me another can of IRN BRU, thank you very much.)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: FFS

        Of course the Scots wanted to stay in. They profited the most from the EU's generous farmer-sponsoring. In fact AFAIK the agricultural industry is the heaviest EU sponsored industry. Granted food is important but this fixation to the farming industry lead to a common disconnection with all the other industries and people. With brexit as a consequence.

        I'm not surprised that Brits voted against the EU. I AM surprised that nobody else had the guts to do the same. Nonetheless I'm (still) convinced that in the long run Brexit is not a Bad Thing(tm).

        We'll just have to take the bull by the horns, re-build our Industry again and become the technological force again that we once were. We need innovative ideas from innovative people like there used to be C. Sinclair, A. Sugar etc... Besides we don't need to be IN the political EU to make business treaties. In fact without all that red tape companies can deal with other companies directly. It used to work in the eighties (or other times before the EU) why can't it work now?

        1. steviebuk Silver badge

          Re: FFS

          One massive flaw with that argument, and I haven't down voted as your opinion is as valid as everyone else's, is that the government is allowing our tech to be sold off. We had ARM, but the Chinese bought that out and the UK government agreed it. The Chinese just took advantage of the weak pound at the time so they could get it cheaper. And that is the issue. They've been forced into an agreement that they have to keep the UK branch, but I don't expect that to last. Once that has run its course they'll probably shutdown the UK branch making everyone redundant.

          Also tariffs may be another that reason the tech industry and others will never pick up again in the UK.

          I don't know if it's the same as in the 80s but Alan Sugar said at the time (video interview of it is on YouTube) he made all his Amstrads abroad as there were tariffs in the UK. From rough memory I think there was a tariff he'd get hit with if the items were built and manufactured in the UK. He said because of this it worked out cheaper to get them made in abroad and then imported in.

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: FFS

          We'll just have to take the bull by the horns, re-build our Industry again and become the technological force again that we once were.

          Still got your war pamphlets, I see.

          Dig for Britain

          <Britan can take it</i>

          They profited the most from the EU's generous farmer-sponsoring.

          Per person it's probably the welsh farmers who benefit most. Scotland makes most from the Barnet formuala for redistribution within the UK.

          Of course, those who make the most are the large agribusinesses and I don't see much changing there. Well, perhaps they'll push to replace Bulgarian and Baltic farm labourers with others they can pay even less.

          It used to work in the eighties (or other times before the EU)Did it bollocks, it was until the Single European Act that all trade barriers in the EU fell.

        3. HolySchmoley

          Re: FFS

          "We'll just have to take the bull by the horns, re-build our Industry again and become the technological force again that we once were. We need innovative ideas from innovative people like there used to be..."

          That speech would've made a good Monty Python sketch, with the orator sinking into the sea as the sun sets on the British Empire...

        4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: FFS

          Of course the Scots wanted to stay in. They profited the most from the EU's generous farmer-sponsoring

          Your argument breaks down completely when you realise that another major farming region (Cornwall) votes leave in big numbers..

        5. Ken 16 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: FFS

          That's the spirit, Mr AC. Soon you and your fellow South Britons will be driving around in your C5's, knocking up spiffing apps on your Amstrads and laughing at the Scots farmers for wanting to stay in business rather than eat new Zealand lamb like the English. Pretty soon the UK economy will be back to it's condition in the 1970's, with rocketing inflation, sterling in freefall and the IMF bailing it out, like the good old days!

          1. HolySchmoley

            Re: FFS

            "Soon you and your fellow South Britons will be driving around in your C5's, knocking up spiffing apps on your Amstrads and laughing at the Scots farmers for wanting to stay in business rather than eat new Zealand lamb like the English."

            Hang on! I'm English. I live in the "Home Counties", and if anyone could show a way for those counties to become an annexe of Scotland rather than of self-serving Westminster Bozos I'd be there in a flash. So would many other "South Britons" I know.

        6. whoelse

          Re: FFS

          If those companies are in the EU27, Britain must trade with them in line with any agreed trading rules with Europe. That's kind of the whole point, whether it's done under a deal, or onerous WTO rules. Brexiters like to say that Europe trades more to Britain than vice versa - and that;s true, as a net sum, which hides the reality that a far smaller percentage of EU exports go to the UK than vice versa, and this is why the EU27 were in a far stronger negotiating position. Only 2 EU nations are exposed badly, and can be supported by the bloc, while the UK would taker a serious haircut, potentially exacerbating the rate of companies exiting too.

          WTO rules would also punish companies using the UK as part of "long workbench" cross-EU manufacturing - like the auto industry. Expect the golden handshake deals given to keep the Japanese car companies settled in the early days of Brexit to get picked apart quick enough if there's no deal.

      3. Roo
        Windows

        Re: FFS

        "Guess how how well those arguments will work next referendum?"

        Brexit was never about planning ahead...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: FFS

          No more referenda or elections, the people spoke in 2016 and must never be asked anything ever again lest they betray Democracy.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: FFS

      "you voted for this (or didn't vote at all) and now it's time to pay the piper."

      Who's this "you" you had in mind? Wasn't me and I rather think it wasn't most UK voters on here.

  1. _LC_ Silver badge
    Holmes

    They're up, and they can't run away.

    Not everything is as 'flexible' as Boris Johnson.

  2. illuminatus

    Well, who'd have thought it?

    "Andrew reckoned the EU's decision was "short-sighted" and professed himself "annoyed" at the situation whereby Brit taxpayers had shovelled £1bn into the programme from which they would now be locked out."

    The same Brit taxpayers who have exercised their will to flounce. Actions have consequences, so suck it up.

    1. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

      Actions have consequences, so suck it up.

      Exactly. From the west side of the pond, it appears to be the norm that things are not thought out by those in power. While Brexit may or may not have been a good idea and purely politically motived by those in power, no one thought further than the vote. Too many times we've seen where actions have re-actions and consequences far beyond the initial action.

      1. goldcd

        I think the issue was the binary question

        1) Leave things as they are

        2) Change things

        Option 2 leaves quite a lot of wriggle room for personal interpretation/bullshitting.

        1. EvilDrSmith Bronze badge

          Re: I think the issue was the binary question

          Goldcd,

          >I think the issue was the binary question

          >1) Leave things as they are

          >2) Change things

          Not entirely true.

          I have seen numerous people that support 'remain' claiming that they knew what they were voting for/it was to keep things as they were, yet this is incorrect: the EU is not static, but is constantly changing.

          If you voted to leave things as they were, then, as (relatively trivial) examples, your vote has already been overturned by:

          the implementation of PESCO (occurred after the vote)

          the reduction in the percentage of tariffs raised by the Common External Tariff (which are, of course, actually paid by UK consumers, so amount to the UK 'sending money' to the EU) kept by the home nation from 25% (2016) to 20% (2017) (with commensurate increase from 75% to 80% paid to the EU).

          Remain voters (assuming they were moderately intelligent and informed) voted for ever closer union - constant change, in a direction that was broadly known, but with huge uncertainty in the details.

          So the options were:

          Vote for moderate uncertainty (change things a little, but continuously), and a broad direction of travel that was known

          Vote for extensive uncertainty (change thing a lot), on an entirely different direction of travel

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "2) Change things"

          Correct.

          Leave voters voted for a blank sheet of paper which the "architects" of this BS promised would be filled in later.

          It now has.

          Many of the Leave voters (or "Banjos") don't like it.

          Felt like you were being played? You were.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

        "no one thought further than the vote."

        Because few in power thought it was a good idea and didn't believe the vote would swing over to yes but were arm-twisted into calling the vote.

      3. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

        Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

        no one thought further than the vote

        I think that's being generous. I'm not sure anyone actually understood what "Vote To Leave The EU" actually meant.

        1. Craig 2

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          "I'm not sure anyone actually understood what "Vote To Leave The EU" actually meant."

          Easy: Tabloids told them migrants were the source of all our problems which would magically disappear if we left the EU.

          1. Terry 6 Silver badge

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            And add, "straight cucumbers" etc. Years and years of the press and anti-EU politicians saying that the EU were imposing this and that on us. Almost all either lies or stuff we'd agreed to. And those bureaucrats are a myth too. From the same stable. They are no different to our own (Some are our own) officials. But the EU laws are made by our elected EU parliament and our national elected ministers. We had control, we're not taking it back. We are giving it away. Along with our freedom of movement. The 27 have 26 other countries to move around in. Us.?

          2. Rainer

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            > Easy: Tabloids told them migrants were the source of all our problems

            > which would magically disappear if we left the EU.

            It's not the only thing that will disappear, I'm afraid.

    2. Alan Johnson

      Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

      "Actions have consequences, so suck it up."

      The issue is I didn't vote for it and the consequences so far seem likely to be inline with what I expected - The deal we can negotiate is manifestly far worse than being in so we will be unable to agree a deal and will leave without one. Leaving without a deal will be worse than leaving with the deal we could negotiate so we will get the worst possible outcome.

      I remember many of the Brexiteers saying how strong the UK negotiating position was and how easy it would be to negotiate a favourable deal. Davis I seem to remember said it would be 'one of the easiest in human history'. Complete fantasy and obvious that Farage and others who distance dthemeselves from any involvement in delivery knew it. Davis and Johnson only realised once they were involved and jumped ship when it was clear that what was promised could not be delivered.

      1. Robert D Bank

        Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

        There are plenty spaces for heads on pikes on Westminster bridge.

        Seriously though, what a complete cluster fuck. At the very LEAST, give yourself time before triggering Article 50 to ascertain, in detail, what the implications are.

        Hard to apportion blame appropriately between the intransigent EU bureaucrats (unelected arseholes on the gravy train) and UK fucking chancers out for a vote. Let them fight it out in a lime pit somewhere.

        This whole Brexit thing makes NHS IT contracts, PFI and the likes of Cr4pita, Carillion and the like look like shrinking violets by comparison in their up front audacity to rip the UK public off.

        Bend over, supply your own butter and take a deep breath.

        1. tin 2

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          Have to agree entirely. TBH I'm not sure how even the most rabid brexiteer didn't immediately clock the Irish border and say "ahh well I would have loved to have done that, but it's obviously impossible".

        2. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          There are plenty spaces for heads on pikes on Westminster bridge.

          No, we are a 48% civilised country, we don't put heads on pikes these days (although it has a strong emotional appeal, and would undoubtedly be a major tourist attraction for years - helping our foreign trade balance, which I'm sure they would appreciate, if they were alive to do any appreciating)

          No, they should all spend the rest of their days in a 10x10ft cell in Dartmoor, only coming out for 12 hours work a day breaking rocks in an open-air quarry, regardless of the weather. The whole thing being livestreamed 24/7. Vindictive? Moi?

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            @ Pen-y-gors

            "No, we are a 48% civilised country"

            So accept the results of the 3 democratic votes? 1 GE for a referendum, 1 referendum and 1 GE.

            "No, they should all spend the rest of their days in a 10x10ft cell in Dartmoor, only coming out for 12 hours work a day breaking rocks in an open-air quarry, regardless of the weather. The whole thing being livestreamed 24/7. Vindictive? Moi?"

            I think you are rubbing up against that civilised but when talking of vindictive dreams. At least leave voted for change (3 times).

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          At the end of the day there was a referendum and a result. Just quit whining and fucking be done with it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

        Can we have the heads of Farage, Boris and Davis on a post outside Parliament?

        After all they promised that we'd all be in the land of milk and roses by now and enjoying the fruits of that £350M/week.

        Instead we are up shit creek without a paddle.

        The deal will get thrown out on its ears and come 29th March we will have 100 miles of lorries stuck trying to flee the country as the borders close.

        A few weeks later, the situation will get worse leading to food and drug rationing.

        The pound will crash below the $1==£1 level and our interest rates will rise to 10% in an attempt to stop the exodus of cash and businesses to Europe.

        Sell, that's one scenario...

        We have to hope that it does not come to that.

        What are the odds eh?

        Boris and co will be long gone (unless he becomes PM by some freak of nature) to foreign parts.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          And that's the best case outlook

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "Can we have the heads of Farage, Boris and Davis on a post outside Parliament?"

          You missed out Jacob Rees Mogg.

          I think you'll find Somerset Asset Management (both the London and Dublin branches) will definitely have been making investments to increase the family fortune.

          The more I look into his behavior the more I think he's in it for the bucks rather than the beliefs.

          At least with Gove you could predict you were in trouble when he stands behind you.

          1. DwarfPants

            Re: "Can we have the heads of Farage, Boris and Davis on a post outside Parliament?"

            And revenge for daddies humiliation

        3. Mark 65

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          Can we have the heads of Farage, Boris and Davis on a post outside Parliament?

          I'd have thought May should be first up. Negotiating a deal that hands over billions with a loose "might do" text as regards a future "maybe" trade deal doesn't sound like a deal you could sell to anyone. In fact it looks like the sort of deal you'd negotiate if you want it to never get across the line back home. I'd like to give credit and say there's some kind of greater end game in play here but it seems more like she'd just like to be done with it and bring on the famous Tory long knives to end her term.

          Not sure Corbyn is particularly offering any alternatives.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            "I'd have thought May should be first up. ..."

            The trouble is that May most probably really wants to deliver "Brexit", something I think many of her Brexiteers colleagues have forgotten. May wants to have an election "post-Brexit" and be able to say she (and the Conservative party) delivered on "the will of the people". In this context (ie. winning the next general election) it doesn't really matter what 'Brexit' is, just so long as it can carry the 'Brexit' label and the Conservatives can claim to have delivered it.

            1. Terry 6 Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

              Roland6 Yes. See icon. Deserved.

          2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            I'd have thought May should be first up. Negotiating a deal that hands over billions with a loose "might do" text as regards a future "maybe" trade deal doesn't sound like a deal you could sell to anyone.

            The great betrayal fallacy. May was the elected leader of the party that wanted to push ahead with leaving. She appointed pro-leavers to the job of top negoatiators. And this is the best they could come up with. Rinse and repeat and you won't change much because the UK wants access to the single market and doesn't want border controls with Ireland reintroduced.

        4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          Boris and co will be long gone (unless he becomes PM by some freak of nature

          I think we can pretty much guarentee that his political career is pretty much over (apart from remaining an MP).

      3. ITfarmer

        Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

        50+ people up voted how disasterous a Remainer Prime Minister and Remainer Civil Servant have made a complete and utter farce of UK Democracy.

        You must be a complete bunch of morons .. I'm surprised you've got the brain power and the gall to type this rubbish.

        I don't know why THIS rag has a bunch of Left wing morons on it .. perhaps you're just young, who knows.

        God knows how you can justify lying supporting Teresa May the traitor.

        The EU is ALL about Germany and France .. that's why over the past 40 years you've seen manufacturing leave the UK in the MILLIONS of jobs. For 40 years we've seen our coastal towns destroyed by the EU with the help of HMG.

        There will be repercussions .. the time for giving Remainers their fair share has GONE.

        David Davis was undermined COMPLETELY by Traitor Mrs May .. she even took most of his neogitiators off him and gave them to Olley Robinson. David Davis had a free trade plan.

        Just look a the cr@ppy mess created by Mrs May .. a REMAINER.

        A dirty little filthy disgusting traitor REMAINER.

        If you love the EU so much bugger off and live there .. I have for over 10 years. At least I know what Europeans think of the UK.

        1. Alister Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          @ITfarmer

          I don't know why THIS rag has a bunch of Left wing morons on it .. perhaps you're just young, who knows.

          In what universe is it a Left Wing thing to support Theresa May? She's a Right Wing politician FFS.

          The EU is ALL about Germany and France .. that's why over the past 40 years you've seen manufacturing leave the UK in the MILLIONS of jobs.

          No, over the past 40 years, various flavours of UK government have systematicaly destroyed most of the manufacturing industries all by themselves. And had it not been for certain protections offered by EU employment law, they'd have removed most ordinary workers rights completely.

          It makes no difference whether May voted to leave or remain, not even the most rabid remainer could have made much difference to the way this is turning out.

        2. Killing Time

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          @ ITfarmer

          'If you love the EU so much bugger off and live there .. I have for over 10 years. At least I know what Europeans think of the UK.'

          Is it possible your perception of your neighbours feelings towards the UK may not be general but far more personal?

          1. Outski

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            'If you love the EU so much bugger off and live there ..'

            I already do live in the EU. Various flavours of.... well, a word I wouldn't permit my children to use want to yank that very lovely blue and gold rug from under my feet

        3. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          @ITFarmer

          Nice try at sarcasm, but this statement David Davis was undermined COMPLETELY by Traitor Mrs May gave it away.

          David Davis and Boris Johnson undermined themselves - remember they agreed to the Chequers Plan... Then David Davis, along with a bunch of other Brexiteers then stood up in public with Mogg and showed themselves up to be deluded idiots...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            I found it very interesting that a proposal by Davis in a newspaper column of his - thus not a hurried off the cuff response to a question in an interview - seems to indicate that he had/has no clue what he was supposedly negotiating for two years as Brexit secretary... otherwise he would not have been advocating using the transition period to negotiate a better deal after crashing out with no deal.

            He kind of makes a bookend with 'I never realized Dover-Calais trade was so important' Raab.

        4. heyrick Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          "If you love the EU so much bugger off and live there .."

          I have, and people like you are fucking it up.

        5. Charlie Clark Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          For 40 years we've seen our coastal towns destroyed by the EU with the help of HMG.

          More like cheap travel led to people preferring to spend their holidays in Mallorca, Greece or Croatia as going to any UK airport around Christmas demonstrates. No idea why this is the case. Wonder if the weather has anything to do with it?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

            >>For 40 years we've seen our coastal towns destroyed by the EU with the help of HMG.

            >More like cheap travel led to people preferring to spend their holidays in Mallorca, Greece or Croatia as >going to any UK airport around Christmas demonstrates. No idea why this is the case. Wonder if the >weather has anything to do with it?

            Greece joined the EU in 1982. Spain in 86. Croatia a mere 5 years ago. People were going to these places long before they were in the union.

            Cheap air travel saw the death of miserable UK seaside resorts, not the EU. Just like the supermarkets followed by the internet (compounded by politicians doing fuck all about it) saw the destruction of the high street, not the arrival of foreigners, who for some reason still wanted local shops rather than Tesco.

            1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

              Greece joined the EU in 1982. Spain in 86. Croatia a mere 5 years ago. People were going to these places long before they were in the union.

              Visa-free travel was largely driven by the EU. The Open Skies programme has been a key driver of opening up the flights market in Europe. Yes, people were going somewhere foreign for their holidays before the Treaty of Luxemburg but the rolling back of borders certainly accelerated the trend.

        6. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

          Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

          @ITFramer

          If you love the EU so much bugger off and live there .. I have for over 10 years. At least I know what Europeans think of the UK.

          I've lived in the EU for many years, still do. It's a little country called Wales. I want to continue living in the EU, but a bunch of mindless, selfish, gullible twats are taking that right away from me.

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