back to article How Microsoft will cram Windows 10 even harder down your PC's throat early next year

Microsoft will automatically download Windows 10 to millions more PCs in a "recommended" Windows update early next year. The tech giant shows no signs of slowing the rollout of its new operating system, utterly undeterred by the growing public outcry at its pushy attitude. Windows 10 already appears as a free "optional" …

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          1. Kiwi
            Mushroom

            Re: Evil @James O'Shea

            You'd almost think that Apple wants to sabotage Microsoft...

            I think MS saw Apple's forces approaching, panicked, and hit the Self Destruct.

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Evil @James O'Shea

            "You'd almost think that Apple wants to sabotage Microsoft..."

            Well given the problems with MS Office 2011 and 2016 on El Capitan there may be some mileage in that. However, MS seem to be able to shot themselves as it seems the MS fix didn't fix the problems people were having with Outlook...

            Other than this, I've not had any problems with El Capitan and other third-party software...

        1. jelabarre59

          Re: Evil

          > I can assure that at the moment most mainstream medical software will not work. Also lot of it requires outdated versions of IE.

          Am I the only one thinking our health system is in a world of shit if medical SW has been allowed to get into this hole? As if it wasn't already in the crapper thanks to Yo-bamacare.

          1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

            Re: Evil

            "As if it wasn't already in the crapper thanks to Yo-bamacare."

            FWIW, I assumed that the crap healthcare system in question was the NHS. I dare say commentards living in yet other countries assumed it was theirs. Ho hum...

      1. Whistlerspa

        Re: Evil

        I went along with Windows 10 on both my laptops and no issues. They work better on this OS than 8 or 8.1. The older one had Windows 7 on it originally but was upgraded to 8 and then 10. The newer one had a clean install. Getting tired of all the scaremongering and paranoia associated with this OS.

        1. Chris G Silver badge

          Re: Evil PR

          Interesting once more; last time I read a thread on The Reg like this one, I remarked that a few of the positive sounding comments on W10 were written like PR copy, paid for by someone.

          Whistlerspa and Badvok both have that style of writing.

          Tell me I'm wrong!

      2. Kiwi
        Linux

        Re: Evil

        Whereas I'm sure there are a few obscure bits of software that might not work, I certainly haven't found any.

        We're seeing machines less then a year old where 10 is reporting hardware is suddenly "No longer present" (or however 10 states that the hardware is not working because it's not there). Had a HP AIO (fairly expensive one at that) belonging to a deaf chap (thus his main means of communication) that presented at first with RAM problems, but then every module we tried failed until in desperation (because I had seen the thing boot dammit!) I tried a 1Gb module we had (very early DDR3). It booted. I was able to get a temporary Win8 install on a temp HDD and get re-flash the BIOS with the latest from HP. It worked fine, so back to the original HDD. Week later (or less), machine back. Same fault. Thankfully a lot quicker. Win 10 doing a neat BIOS update (or something like that) for the customer - unasked, and it was incompatible so screwed the machine up. The ONLY way to fix it was to remove 10. And turn all updates off until this mess is fixed. (Yes yes.. Turning updates off makes the machine vulnerable.. Well you retarded fuckturds at MS, a machine that won't boot certainly is not vulnerable!)

        Have seen a number of business applications fail as well. Nothing I would call "obscure" although names escape me atm. Common stuff..

        Oh, and I have seen several uncommon programs (including one rare one called "Firefox" and another called "Thunderbird" that maybe only one or two people use) disappear complete with their data - without warning. So a business loses all their emails - or would do if it wasn't for some rather strict backup policies we have regarding customer data and 10.

        10 is trashing machines, and having a negative impact on many businesses. Since it's release we have now had at least 20 business customers who have been without one or more critical machines for several days due to this farce.

        Fuck off and die MS.

        (On the plus side, I now have over a dozen new Linux clients to support! And several more to come in the next few weeks!)

        1. Badvok

          Re: Evil

          " Win 10 doing a neat BIOS update"

          Now I've heard everything, Windows 10 is able to flash your BIOS without even prompting you - Wow! Next we'll be hearing that Windows 10 can actually modify the user's DNA!

          1. Kiwi
            Linux

            Re: Evil

            Now I've heard everything, Windows 10 is able to flash your BIOS without even prompting you - Wow! Next we'll be hearing that Windows 10 can actually modify the user's DNA!

            Ok, so explain what was happening with Win 10 on the machine (and only with W10, not 8 or something else) that was causing the machine to fail in such a way that it could only recognise 1G ram modules (only single ones at that), not 2g modules nor the 16g (either or both of the 2x8g sticks) the machine had in it, which could only be fixed by re-flashing the BIOS? Which, BTW, you have to do in Windows 8 because that's the only OS that HP releases the update utility for on that model.

            And by not booting I mean giving the standard HP "beep codes" for a RAM fault. No display, no booting the OS, just the beep codes.

            Oh, and you do realise that modern BIOS's, even before (U)EFI was common, have had Windows-based tools (eg "Win Flash" from Insyde) to flash them, right? (not for all, but many and growing) You are aware that it's a small jump from double-clicking an executable you downloaded to your desktop to flash your BIOS (or firmaware or UEFI or whatever) to having it happen "automatically", done by a mechanism built into the OS, right?

            Not hard at all to do really. Once Win Flash (and similar) came along, it was really only a small step to automating it.

            If 10 is intended to handle ALL OS updates including all driver, firmware and so on updates without "bothering" the user - all in the interests of security - then why do you find it odd that BIOS updates would be included in that?

          2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

            Re: Evil / altering DNA

            "Now I've heard everything, Windows 10 is able to flash your BIOS without even prompting you - Wow! Next we'll be hearing that Windows 10 can actually modify the user's DNA!"

            Bah. Win95 could already do that, given the right hardware.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Evil

        Windows 10 broke my touchpad... and was just not.. nice to use... I was on windows 8.1, so its not that nice anyway, but damn it was just bad! How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad!!!

        1. <spez>

          Re: Evil

          had the same problem with an Asus laptop, it meant just removing and adding the device again.

          the trick is doing that with just the laptops keyboard.

          lots of Alt's and tab's used.

          but took 15 mins max, a ball ache; yes, shouldn't of happened; yes. End of the world; Nope.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Evil

          How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad

          Well, if you got a touch-screen like MS was telling you to do then you wouldn't have that problem now, would you?

          You've only got yourselves to blame for ignoring them - and now look what's happened, they have to force you ignorant bastards to do as your told!

        3. jelabarre59

          Re: Evil

          > Windows 10 broke my touchpad... and was just not.. nice to use... I was on windows 8.1, so its not that nice anyway, but damn it was just bad! How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad!!!

          Ah, you mean the one where just *using* the touchpad would cause MSWin10 to BSOD? That one was just outright impressive; touch the touchpad and your machine crashes. Good thing it was a crappy test laptop and not a machine doing actual *work*.

        4. Bluto Nash
          Trollface

          Re: Evil

          How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad

          I dunno, plug in a $4 USB mouse?

          1. Kiwi

            Re: Evil

            How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad

            I dunno, plug in a $4 USB mouse?

            Perhaps he did, and is still waiting for windows to install the driver... Or maybe he can't remember which USB port he had it in last time so has to wait while windows reboots because you moved a USB mouse to a different port...

            (Which I have seen 8.1 do in the last 72 hours)

      4. FlameButt

        Re: Evil

        How can you call it "just" an upgrade? And you consider their changes to be "tweaked a few bits under the hood"? Microsoft must LOVE people like you...

        What gets me the most about that 'upgrade' comment is (and no-one else seems to have mentioned it yet) is the look and feel of the new OS!

        I have no desire to use an Operating System that looks like this - starting with Windows 8 M$ have tried to ease us into the 'this could be your phone you are using now' mentality and I am curious why? No, I'm not actually - I can work out the advantages of mobile technology for myself and don't need others to tell me I need it.

        And the new Windows 10 flat-UI look - what happens if I literally just don't like it, can I make it look like XP anymore? Even Windows 7 with Aero was survivable but this...

        Perhaps I am just too old-fashioned but having a GUI that looks like a GUI is important to me - if I wanted a flat look I should be able to apply it, not have it shoved in my face and down my throat.

        </rant> Phew! I've been waiting to say that for a long time...

        1. Badvok

          Re: Evil

          FlameButt: "What gets me the most about that 'upgrade' comment is (and no-one else seems to have mentioned it yet) is the look and feel of the new OS!"

          Ah, so you haven't actually used Windows 10 then, fair enough. When you do get around to looking at it you'll find that you don't have to use any of the new UI stuff, in fact you can pretty much make it look and behave just like Windows 7. This was the big U-turn people were talking about a little while back that I guess you missed.

          1. jelabarre59

            Re: Evil

            > in fact you can pretty much make it look and behave just like Windows 7. This was the big U-turn people were talking about a little while back that I guess you missed.

            Ah, so you can disable the themes service and get back the Win2000 look, just like you could all the way through MSWin7??? What? No you can't? Ah, I guess I must have misunderstood you while you were talking out of your ass.

          2. The Travelling Dangleberries

            Re: Evil

            @ Badvok

            "When you do get around to looking at it you'll find that you don't have to use any of the new UI stuff, in fact you can pretty much make it look and behave just like Windows 7."

            Well it is good to know that MS have reinstated the clean and simple "Classic" W95/NT4 grey UI, that went footsie when Win 8 was introduced. That is how my Windows 7 looks and behaves.

            That is what you meant, right?

            1. Badvok

              Re: Evil

              No, I meant what I said, Windows 7, not other ancient UIs. Though of course you should note that many applications written for those ancient systems you appear to like do actually still work on Windows 10.

        2. jelabarre59

          Re: Evil

          > And the new Windows 10 flat-UI look - what happens if I literally just don't like it, can I make it look like XP anymore? Even Windows 7 with Aero was survivable but this...

          I like the comparison I set up here: http://www.windows10forums.com/threads/colors-themes.648/#post-2782

          1. Col_Panek

            Re: Evil

            Zorin or Mint.

        3. Pookietoo
          Windows

          Re: Microsoft must LOVE people like you

          They must, they pay people like him.

  1. Wensleydale Cheese
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I shall be trying openSUSE on my last remaining Windows system

      So you still run windows then ?

      1. Wensleydale Cheese

        Re: I shall be trying openSUSE on my last remaining Windows system

        "So you still run windows then ?"

        That box has been sitting in a corner, unused and unloved, for the last 2 years or so.

        As I recall it got into a loop downloading the same patches again and again, at which point I switched it off, intending to have another go.

        To be frank I couldn't be bothered.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: I shall be trying openSUSE on my last remaining Windows system

          "That box has been sitting in a corner, unused and unloved, for the last 2 years or so."

          Nice one! Reeled him in beautifully.

  2. Vince

    Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

    It's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Generally speaking, I like Microsoft's technology, but this is a total joke, and my current policy is now to disable updates entirely on machines I have, so I can take control back - I don't mind SECURITY updates and the like being applied, but downloading an entire OS is mentally stupid.

    It's causing all kinds of issues - sudden poor performance of customer connections when in some cases hundreds of computers suddenly go for a look (And no, they often don't have managed updates via WSUS etc)... machines that are totally broken post update, applications that are no longer working but which are mission critical.

    This is absolutely and completely breaking the trust in Microsoft's update systems and the purpose of the tool for protecting customers.

    Bad Bad Bad.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Vince - Re: Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

      Trust and Microsoft in the same affirmative sentence? Surely you can't possibly be serious.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Vince - Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

        Trust and Microsoft in the same affirmative sentence: "Trust Microsoft to really screw you about and eat your bandwidth installing Gigabytes of stuff you didn't ask for"

        Is that affirmative enough?

      2. banalyzer

        Re: @Vince - Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

        Vince is entirely serious. Companies trust Microsoft because they don't normally have a plan 'B'.

        The one I work at has a couple of mainframes, some Linux based servers, more MS based servers and every desktop is Win7, well apart from the 12 that run XP and a bit of software that 7 vomits all over.

        The servers are slowly ( only about another decade to go ) being moved over to linux but the desktop is geared to stay solely MS.

        If MS closed up tomorrow there would be panic in the upper echelons with what are *you* going to do about it questions. Talk to anyone in a large company with real decision making authority and they probably aren't aware that there is another OS other than MS. Even apple will be seen as 'those gadget fellas'

    2. VinceH

      Re: Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

      "and my current policy is now to disable updates entirely on machines I have, so I can take control back"

      You - and anyone else that does this - might want to double check that on occasion.

      I now do similar; I let it check for updates automatically, and sometimes take articles like this one as a prompt to wander off to Windows Update to see if there is anything there to either ignore (and hide) or install.

      The first thing I saw on the main Windows Update screen was:

      "You're set to automatically install updates"

      Which is completely different the "You're set to automatically check for updates" that should be there.

      And looking at my update history, I see an update on 20th October (KB3105216 - relating to Flash, which I don't even have installed). The last time I installed updates was the 16th October.

      Obviously, I've now changed it back to automatic checking, so that I can manually install or not.

    3. regadpellagru

      Re: Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

      "It's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Generally speaking, I like Microsoft's technology, but this is a total joke, and my current policy is now to disable updates entirely on machines I have, so I can take control back"

      + 1, here. Windows 7 in a locked-up VM, no network. Enabling network has now become dangerous, and frankly, I don't really need it ...

  3. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Appropriate Winston Churchill paraphrase for us hardcore holdouts...

    "We shall defend our current OS, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

    1. brainout

      Re: Appropriate Winston Churchill paraphrase for us hardcore holdouts...

      Wow, you took the words right outta my mouth, literally. I was referencing Churchill at the same time, here: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/594817/windows-10-updates-policy-change-more-of-the-same/?p=3852039

      Just happened to be watching WWII movies and posting them from Youtube, here: http://brainout.net/frankforum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=365 , so the obvious parallel to this latests hitlerian complement to hitlerian Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa couldn't be missed.

      And here you were, typing the same thing in your OWN way!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    theregister.co.uk has posted the story. Psyop team needs to blanket this one ASAP.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 7 on a P4

    For reasons only Microsoft could fathom, I was given the "opportunity" to upgrade to Windows 10. As my machine is a P4 without NX, it is incapable of running even Windows 8. They are a tad to enthusiastic methinks.

    1. amolbk

      Re: Windows 7 on a P4 (Unsupported PCs)

      I hope they don't automatically download Windows 10 on unsupported PCs.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Unsupported PCs

        They did exactly that to me this week. I used the media creation tool to try to upgrade my machine, it downloaded 3GB of stuff and *then* announced that it was going to throw it all away because the machine didn't have 2GB RAM.

    2. bazza Silver badge

      Re: Windows 7 on a P4

      "As my machine is a P4 without NX..."

      Retro-estimable!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 7 on a P4

        To be fair, it does have a 60Mb internet connection, SSDs and an OK graphics card, so the performance is quite acceptable for 99% of things I do.

        The worst was running SQL Server Management Studio connected to the client via a VPN. SSMS is a slug, to be sure.

        I run PaleMoon, Thunderbird, LibreOffice and various assorted odds and ends. I have already ripped all my CDs and the occasional addition is no big chore. HD video is an issue I admit, but that's why I have a TV. I don't "game".

        So there you have it. I could probably save electricity by upgrading the MB, but then I would need to buy another Win7 licence - perhaps paying the utility company is the lesser of two evils.

    3. Allan George Dyer Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Windows 7 on a P4

      In other news, the National Trust has reported that Stonehenge will be closed for "unexpected system updates".

      1. Teiwaz
        Coat

        Re: Windows 7 on a P4

        Granite chip Technology...

        > 'In other news, the National Trust has reported that Stonehenge will be closed for "unexpected system updates".'

        Could do with it, the planetary alignment is out by a couple of thousand years. Still got plenty of bus capacity (no end of buses last time I was there).

        And there's talk of 'tunneling', so maybe someones still thinks it's worth hacking...

        1. tony2heads

          Re: Stonehenge

          Wait for the precession of equinoxes; it will be about right in another 20,000 years

          1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson
            Coat

            Re: Stonehenge

            Nah, all the Druids know it is far easier to build a new 64 MegaLith computer than upgrading the old one

            Doffs hat to the late great Terry Prattchet

          2. Wensleydale Cheese
            Joke

            Re: Stonehenge

            Would switching it off and on again help?

  6. Your alien overlord - fear me

    What is familiar in Windows 10 compared to Windows 7? Never did Win8 so all these tiles and rubbish are just that. Did a proper upgrade to Linux (and yes, I am a MCSE with my work hat on).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Linux is working for me.

      Linux isn't trouble-free, there are old Windows habits I shall have to unlearn, but it's working.

      Linux is using less than half the RAM of Windows when newly booted.

      I have had some horrible chases for software.

      The Alt key works differently. It's not just about getting unusual characters that are not on the keyboard, but keyboard shortcuts. Try using the "Windows" key and the Alt key together as a substitute.

      And it seems to be pot luck whether Adobe Flash content works or not.

      Getting hardware to work can be interesting, in rather frightening ways.

      But nobody expects me to use Internet Explorer.

      And the sometimes slipshod documentation is mostly just differently bad.

      Saying you can't change OS is like saying you can't use a mobile phone without it using Windows.

      1. DJV Silver badge

        "And it seems to be pot luck whether Adobe Flash content works or not."

        If you're lucky, it won't...

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