back to article Women are too expensive to draw and code – Ubisoft

Ubisoft's creative director Alex Amancio has stirred up another row over sexism in the gaming industry by saying the studio's new game, Assassin's Creed Unity, doesn't feature any female characters because it would have been too much of an effort to create them. Amancio's opinion emerged in this video interview posted by …

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  1. DrXym

    Understandable I guess

    If you give people the choice of sexes for the main protagonist then the developers have to record hundreds of hours of the identical dialogue for both sexes. In every supported language (English, Spanish, French, German etc.). And motion capture too. And two sets of cutscenes if it's fmv. And get the engine to cope regardless of models used. It probably is a logistical headache.

    But Ubisoft could choose a female protagonist more often than it does. The AC series has had one spinoff with a female lead (for the PS Vita) but otherwise it's just some lunk doing pretty much the same thing from one historical setting to the next.

    1. Tom 7

      Re: Understandable I guess

      Do these people not know how to use computers or something? Text to voice is more than good enough for most games and its easy to switch the base voice from male to female and most of the users wouldn't know the difference.

      I think the real problem here is not that its more expensive to create a female character but they realise that the target market is wrong but they cant really say 'I'm sorry our target audience are not interested'

      1. joeldillon

        Re: Understandable I guess

        'Text to voice is more than good enough for most games' - really? Are you trolling?

        1. wowfood

          Re: Understandable I guess

          Somebody set up us the bomb.

          Main screen turn on

          All your base are belong to us

          You have no chance to survive make your time.

          Move ZIG

          For great justice.

          Text to speech will never be as good as this. Ever.

      2. Gary Riches

        Re: Understandable I guess

        "Text to voice is more than good enough for most games" - What the absolute, fucking fuck?

      3. Fibbles
        Coffee/keyboard

        Re: Understandable I guess

        "Text to voice is more than good enough for most games"

        New keyboard please.

      4. stanimir

        Re: Understandable I guess

        Text to voice is more than good enough for most games and its easy to switch the base voice from male to female and most of the users wouldn't know the difference.

        I can clearly bet you'd not make a lead designer for any game with more than a few hundred quids budget.

        Also I bet you'd think any cartoons film can just skip voice actors and use text-to-voice.

    2. Dave Bell

      Re: Understandable I guess

      That particular game got ported over and released through some download channels, early this year. I don't recall seeing any mention of it until this row exploded into the open. Assassin's Creed: Liberation HD is the title.

      I'm surprised it took this long. There's nothing in the genetic memory thing to justify it, and a heck of a lot of women want to play computer games.

      Maybe they should check the office fridge?

      1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

        Re: Understandable I guess

        > and a heck of a lot of women want to play computer games.

        Soooo... a lot of women want to play, only they can't because the only playable character is male. What you're saying is that women can't play a male character. At this point I feel compelled to ask: have you ever met any gamer woman? Or any woman? Or any gamer, for that matter?

  2. Rocket_Rabbit
    Paris Hilton

    All that 'jiggling' that women do requires more processing power and more polygons....waaaaaaaaaay more polygons!

    Paris even though she's lacking somewhat in the polygon department.

  3. Crisp

    And here I was thinking that complex physics was the problem

    After all, how much GPU power do you spend on making sure that breasts bounce just right?

    1. D@v3

      Re: And here I was thinking that complex physics was the problem

      easily solved. Give them less 'assets'. Also being assassins and needing to stay inconspicuous, I would expect them to be fairly well covered, (not the normal level of dress for female characters) and well fitted clothes would probably help with all the running climbing and Assassing...

    2. Fibbles

      Re: And here I was thinking that complex physics was the problem

      The traditional method for getting appropriately animated breasts is to bone them.

  4. James Howat

    Unfortunate phrasing

    What they meant to say, what they were trying to say, is that "creating two protagonist characters is twice the work." It's just unfortunate that they wrote it as, "we were going to have the option of playing a woman, and decided it wasn't worth the effort."

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A dev's p.o.v

    Hi,

    I work for one of the major game developers. I'm totally in favour of greater female representation; Christ we need it. Here, though, are some reasons why female characters rarely figure.

    Modelling and texturing geometry is relatively cheap; that's not the issue. What makes it way more expensive is that you need to create a new skeleton hierarchy to drive that geo. That skeleton has different pivot points for narrower shoulders etc without which your female characters would look like a bad tranny.

    Once you introduce a new skeleton type into a game there is a phenomenal amount of cost associated with that. If you're sensible all the animations in the game will play on that new skeleton, but there will be major issues such as hands not holding guns, since the bones are different lengths, or heels not behaving well with the ground plane. A large number of real time systems need to be used to correct these issues, but it gets pretty complicated pretty fast.

    You will probably need complete replacements of animation sets for movement, climbing etc. Some systems such as hand to hand combat might need to be designed to cope with a female grappling a male and vice versa. The last game I worked on had over 25,000 animations. Each one needs to be lovingly authored to work with each other.

    All of this costs a lot of money, which results in one decision being made, and here's the crux, usually late in the day. Do we drop the ability to do 'X' even though it's really fun, so we can support female variations/interactions for Y and Z? That decision frequently goes in favour of dropping female variations altogether, since people who make games usually make them for one reason above all others. To make fun games. And fun beats diversity nine times out of ten in the world of games production, which mostly is made up on the hoof. That last point is worth underlining.

    There are some devs out there that really understand the power of strong female characters. Look to something like The Last of Us by Naughty Dog for an example of a stunning game with compelling male and female characters. To achieve that takes meticulous planning from the outset, which I can tell you rarely happens. And this is the real problem behind all of this; shoddy planning, not sexism.

    1. TRT

      Re: A dev's p.o.v

      So what you're saying is that the game engine per se requires a lot of work to provide an alternative avatar. So... an opportunity is there for someone who comes up with a more versatile char engine.

    2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: A dev's p.o.v

      I read that as "institutionalised sexism" (not thinking about women from the outset) rather than misogyny.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. John Sanders
      Trollface

      Re: A dev's p.o.v

      """That skeleton has different pivot points for narrower shoulders etc without which your female characters would look like a bad tranny."""

      Discrimination against "transexuals" alert!

      Sorry I could not avoid it!

      1. TrishaD

        Re: A dev's p.o.v

        "Discrimination against "transexuals" alert!"

        No, nio ... I'll just sit here cracking my knuckles and looking menacing ...

        Anyway - was this sexist? Almost definitely not by intention. It was however hugely cack-handed (much more so than the 'broad-shouldered bad tranny' comment - speaking as I do as a broad-shouldered tranny). It implyies that 50% of the human population dont really matter. Which I'm pretty sure wasnt his intention. Engage brain before opening mouth would seem good practice.

        That aside, there do seem to be quite a lot of female gamers, and quite a lot of those female gamers like to play female avatars. And on the global stage, 'quite a lot'='a lot' at least as far as cash is concerned.

        Dumb move.

    4. Dave Bell

      Re: A dev's p.o.v

      Thanks for this summary.

      I can go for bad planning being a part of this.

      I write stuff. It's interesting to look at a character and wonder why I've inserted yet another default man, and often not too hard to change. But you've explained why that change is a huge amount of work in a computer game.

  6. OzBob
    Joke

    Even with all that GPU power

    you'd still end up waiting for ages while she decided what to wear.

    1. John Sanders
      Thumb Up

      Re: Even with all that GPU power

      You just described a female relative of mine playing any game that offers customization.

      She spends more time drawing skins and changing dresses for her characters than playing the games.

      1. wowfood

        Re: Even with all that GPU power

        That's not just a female problem. I spent several hours customizing my Elder Scrolls char to look exactly as I wanted him to, only so I would never really see their faces again. Likewise on most MMO which relatively good customization.

        I think I have a problem.

    2. kmac499

      Re: Even with all that GPU power

      Just add a Brassiere curve algortithm alngside the Bezier one in the GPU ..Simples

  7. John Sanders
    Flame

    PC stupidity again

    I demand a tomb raider game where I can change "Lara Croft" into "Laro Cruft"! Tomb Raider is discriminative!

    Political Correctness is going to kill us all!!!

    1. ADJB

      Re: PC stupidity again

      Correct, we demand equal opportunity assassins.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Headline is lie

    "Women are too expensive to draw and code – Ubisoft" - that's not what he's saying; he's saying adding a second character model to the one they've already got is outside his budget. Gender is not the issue. Whoever is trying to stir up a row about sexism over this needs to either find a different target or shut the f*ck up and get a proper job.

    1. wowfood

      Re: Headline is lie

      He already has a proper job, that's what journalists do these days. All it was missing was the word SHOCK! at the beginning of it and it could have passed as newspaper worthy.

  9. Phil W

    Simple Solution

    The simple solution would be to create a female character called Arna, who is a very masculine looking, flat chested, female assassin with a very deep voice.

  10. Silviu C.

    Bollocks

    Dude who used to work for Ubisoft says it's all BS:

    http://l.gamespot.com/1pLY8qS

  11. banjomike
    Happy

    double the visual assets

    Well, I should hope so...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My experience of male/female ratio in gaming

    The highest female to male ratio I have ever seen on any fps/tps was 1 in 10, this based upon voice/name/chat.

    In my experience over many years I would say that for this type of game the people who want female avatars are not themselves female.

    Many female gamers have told me that they prefer male avatars, it might be so they do not stand out from the crowd, this as admitting you are a female gamer is an open invitation for sexual harassment, I do not know as I would never ask a male player to justify why they chose a female avatar either.

    The real question is why there is so much fuss about it, I would say tomb raider's success had little to do with encouraging female gamers but rather because some males who have difficulty with intersexual relations in real life wanted a non-threatening girl toy to play with.

    So for those who truly wish to see sexual equality in gaming, I suggest that you recognize that the majority of gamers bothered about this are males who wish to ogle female like avatars, basically an objectification of women.

    I am not looking for sexual stimulation in my gaming and the questions raised about the people who are seeking this are a matter for much more concern, to me at least

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My experience of male/female ratio in gaming

      Then, the shark's lagoon is not for you.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My experience of male/female ratio in gaming

      "I do not know as I would never ask a male player to justify why they chose a female avatar either."

      From a personal perspective, it's mostly an aesthetic choice... playing in a 3rd-person RPG, the typical view you have of your character is from behind. As a red-blooded heterosexual male, I simply prefer the aesthetic of a shapely female derriere with a big of a wiggle in her walk over spending the majority of my gaming experience with the rear end of a hefty bloke in the middle of my screen!

  13. Chad H.

    well, it least its more plausable than EA saying they cant have womens football teams in game as it would need a new physics engine.... I didnt realise that women had their own laws of relativity.

  14. heyrick Silver badge
    WTF?

    Hmm...

    Was farting around with GTA3:Liberty on my PS2 the other day (no, I'm not a gamer...) and I don't remember an option to change the protagonist to be female. Indeed, it's a fixed storyline so I don't think you can be anybody else at all.

    Some games support lots of customisation, others don't.

  15. Benjol

    I hope they also provided an option for a blind avatar, and one with a wheelchair, and...

  16. NomNomNom

    the industry is inherently sexist

  17. SVV

    Videogame sexism has een going on for years....

    I mean, I can even remember Ms Pac-Man, who surely should have been called Pac-Woman.

  18. Lars
    Joke

    Perhaps

    Hemingway was sexist too as he newer wrote "The old woman and the sea".

  19. Bucky 2
    Trollface

    Easy Solution

    Women simply need to get their asses out of the kitchens and into the laboratories, where they belong!

    There. Problem solved.

    1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

      Re: Easy Solution

      > Women simply need to get their asses out of the kitchens and into the laboratories, where they belong!

      I happen to work in one (lab, not woman). The man/woman ratio at the moment is 3/14. Quite representative of the institute as a whole, too. Kitchens must be quite women-deprived in my part of the world*. Or maybe current policies and prejudices about women in the workplace are 50-years-old and not even remotely close to reality?

      *not a bad thing, as I'm the one doing the cooking at home, and guess what, shock horror, it's because I like it, and I'm hugely better at it than my resident other-gender kitchenmate, whose entire skillset in the matter boil down to "pop the frozen dinner into the microwave". Or is it sexist to point that out?

  20. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

    No wonder

    Skyrim was so bloody expensive .....

    Bella Roach..... mage, assassin and housewife ;)

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A Bad Idea

    They would have been better off just saying "Because it's our company and we can do as we please with our own product." All they've done in trying to explain their decision is to give feminists a clear target. Bad idea. They will regret this approach.

  22. This post has been deleted by its author

  23. ecofeco Silver badge

    Misogyny

    Misogyny. He haz it.

    Period.

  24. johnwerneken

    Too Funny for words

    No real people are in reality affected, except in their fantasy of placing some value on who appears to resemble whom. Feminists are racists on this issue - seeing folks as representatives of themselves or of a group and not as individuals.

  25. Paul J Turner

    Not the first group of lazy bastards...

    http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/frozen-head-of-animation-says-animating-women-is-really-really-difficult-89467.html

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In another interview he claim that he slipped up; he was on the spot and tried to give an answer, but it didn't reflect reality. The real answer is that even during the multiplayer game all the players are playing the very same character. The character can be customised to each player's playing preference, but it is still the very same character. This is the reason why the multiplayer part of the game doesn't include a female character.

    reference http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-06-12-i-understand-the-issue-but-its-not-relevant-in-assassins-creed-unity

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