back to article Labour calls for BIG OVERHAUL of UK super-snoop powers in 'new digital world'

The Labour Party is edging ever closer to plans to resurrect the twice-shelved reworking of existing surveillance laws to address security issues online, if it wins in next year's General Election. Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper said during a speech today that the Labour Party backed reform that would allow spooks and …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yvette cooper

    highly authoritarian and not to be trusted

  2. nsld
    FAIL

    More of the same drivel

    "The police and security services have been under pressure to explain why they didn’t know more about the murderers of Drummer Lee Rigby, and why more is not being done to disrupt the use of the internet by violent extremists looking to radicalise young people," the MP said.

    Funnily enough Treasonous May said the same thing just before Snowden threw her under the bus with the revelations that GCHQ where already doing that and much more with no legal oversight.

    The bottom line is that this is nothing more than the cynical use of the death of Lee Rigby and both May and Cooper should be ashamed of themselves, especially after it came to light that both of the scum bags who carried out the hideous crime where extremely well know to the security services.

    Despite what these idiots will have you believe we are not over run with terrorists or paedophiles but they do make great headline grabbers. If Cooper wants to do something to get votes she needs to overturn the deals done by Blair with the murdering IRA scum so that they can be bought to justice rather than her dreams of her own personal great firewall of UK.

    1. Anomalous Cowturd
      Pint

      Re: More of the same drivel

      +1 for Treasonous May.

      And +another 1 for the rest.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. xerocred

      Re: More of the same drivel

      Welcome to Dystopia. Oh, you're already here.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pretty sure the politicians and most of the population dumped the concept of "liberty" a long time ago.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    I really do wish the politicians would stop banging on about paedophiles. I couldn't really give a shit about people that look at pictures as long as they keep their hands to themselves.

    All these paedophile soundbites are just a smokescreen for the real problem of the abduction of children and forcing them into sexual slavery.

    But then that's a really difficult problem to solve, with much of it being perpetrated in foreign lands.

    1. JonP

      I couldn't really give a shit about people that look at pictures as long as they keep their hands to themselves.

      The problem is that the pictures are only taken (and hence children abused) because people want to look at them. It's not a smokescreen for the real problem, it's the cause of the real problem - in much the same way that the demand for ivory or tiger bones is the cause of the poaching. If there was no demand it wouldn't make any money, and so wouldn't happen. But, yes it's a global problem and more local laws aren't really going to make much difference...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I actually disagree. I've heard this argument before and it's flawed.

        The problem with this kind of logic is that what would otherwise be perfectly legitimate behaviour (looking at pictures) becomes criminalised, withtout even getting into the boundary conditions of the popular traditions of Japanese anime and cartoons of what look to be "children".

        The problem that society has is the abuse of children, not the viewing of pictures. Our obsession with pictures makes us think we're doing something noble while doing very little to actually deal with the problem.

        By focusing on this, we lose sight of what the real problem is and fail to deal with it.

        As we can see in this case, clamping down on paedophiles looking at pictures has made not one jot of difference to the problem of child sexual abuse because it just doesn't get to the gist of the problem at hand.

        One reason for this is that is is much harder to detect people looking at pictures than it is to detect child abduction and abuse, despite the enormous amount of money and effort being pored into it.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Labour introduced much of the powers that need reforming.

  7. Will Godfrey Silver badge

    I dispair

    Is there no end to their lies, deceit, arrogance and ignorance?

    1. billse10

      Re: I dispair

      "Is there no end to their lies, deceit, arrogance and ignorance?"

      Conversely:

      Is there no beginning to their honesty and competence?

  8. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    You wonder if any of them have read Snowden's details and realize

    most of what they want already exists.

  9. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Where are the American commentards?

    I've just had a thought.

    No doubt you've seen the reoccurring theme from some American commentators in the NSA threads accusing us Brits of biased American-bashing, even though (as many have pointed out) the complaints have been related to the American situation, simply because the majority of articles are about the NSA.

    And then the strange reaction when the Yahoo webcam GCHQ story was released and it was almost like "ner ner, yours are bad too", and we were "errr, yeah, and? it's not a competition. Feel free to rip into them as we will"

    Well, here is an article about scummy UK stuff, and every post so far has been critical of both/either parties, but the Americans seem to be strangely quiet.

    To be fair, there are some anti-American arsehats on here, but could the more general feeling of anti-American bias simply be because those that feel it simply aren't interested in UK related articles, and therefore don't get to read these types of comments?

    I hope not. I was looking forward to opinions from our American friends (as long as they aren't of the 'one-up-manship' type that some think has been our agenda)

    Seriously, I think some of the best commentards on El Reg are American, and it's nice to see a group that doesn't fall into the 'we kick yer ass, America #1 fuck yeah!" stereotype.

    I'd like to hope both Yanks and Limeys alike can continue to post an opinion here on things that are USA-related, or UK-related, without things turning into an us..vs..them / anti-US/UK accusational (Does that word exist? It should do!)

    In fact, El Reg has been one of the few places I've seen on the net where this has been the case. I hope this continues.

    Sorry, I've gone off on a big touchie-feelie hippy tangent, ho hum. I blame the meds!

    P.s. Of course, the same applies to all other countries too, but problems mainly seem to appear when its UK <-> US

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Where are the American commentards?

      "accusational (Does that word exist? It should do"

      If you were American you'd probably call it an accusationalism-fest" :-)

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: Where are the American commentards?

        You're both looking for the word 'accusatory'.

    2. wx666z
      Big Brother

      Re: Where are the American commentards?

      As a citizen of the U.S., I'm appalled that both the U.K. and the U.S. seem to be on the same trajectory, a speeding freight train on rails laid long ago. No matter the engineer/driver, our course is pre-determined.Not sure about the U.K., but have decided here I can no longer vote Democrat or Republican, have voted Green several times. We did not win, and perhaps never will. Just don't play within the system.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Where are the American commentards?

        " As a citizen of the U.S., I'm appalled that both the U.K. and the U.S. seem to be on the same trajectory"

        I agree totally. As this article shows, here in the UK, the main parties are also as bad as each other.

        The people (or 'sheeple' to use the paragraphically-challenged-ones silly word) such *as* Matt believe any of the "there's a paedophile/terrorist/welshman' hiding under your bed" stories, and are willing to throw away their freedom, as long as it doesn't affect their ability to vote on programmes such as (ironically) 'Big Brother'.

        I'm more surprised that it's happening here, though, as the WWII bombing stuff and the domestic terrorism have been a factor in our history. I guess people forget, and youth grow up without ever knowing or caring.

        The main problem that people like Matt don't see is the insidiousness of the whole operation: Laying the legal and technical infrastructure to make mission creep almost inevitable.

        As someone has already pointed out, soon, any group planning a peaceful protest will be considered 'terrorists'.

        People will be investigated due to jokes or misconstrued comments supposedly made in private - thought-crime will become a real issue, just as the book predicted.

        In the past, if the police had wanted to listen in on someones communications, the word 'warrant' was always expected to be part of the picture, but it seems the spies live on a James Bond pedestal....

  10. Graham Marsden
    Big Brother

    "paedophiles, extremists and terrorists... oh my!"

    These are the people who gave us the Dangerous Pictures Act. Who wanted the National DNA Database. Who wanted us all to have ID cards. Who introduced the RIP Act which was supposed to protect us against terrorists, not to spy on people who might be sending their kids to the wrong school, etc etc etc.

    And NOW they expect us to TRUST THEM?

    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: "paedophiles, extremists and terrorists... oh my!"

      Graham, spoken like a true extremely perverted terrorist!

      I suggest Gitmo for you forthwith!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Politicians

    You'll always know when they're lying: their lips move.

  12. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Pathetic is as pathetic does ....

    ... and one does wonder why such nonsense is tolerated of minnows and minions and afforded column inches and aired in timed spaces/contrived places. Media is such an ignorant plonker and so easily led to the bottom of piles of smarter news and clearer views.

    Ok ..... what is the consensus El Reg view with particular and peculiar regard to any proposed political theatre that would have government lackeys and under and uneducated peoples representatives thinking to provide intelligence services with a revised mandate to be overseen by them/dictated by them?

    Would the spooks be quaking in their boots at the prospect, or laughing their merry little heads off at the hubris?

    Vote up for rousing laughter, vote down for them being terrified with worrisome FUD.

    And would it be entirely appropriate for spooky chiefs to grow a pair, and advise the above and aforementioned government lackeys and under and uneducated peoples representatives, on behalf of and as media spokespersons for their intelligence services, to fcuk off and mind their own dodgy mined business whilst they still can before the bold early knock at the door because of what has been discovered about their shenanigans, or is that best left unsaid for us to enjoy as new tales in the news in the upcoming series of fab revisionary actions with novel noble revelations in sweet sticky juicy scandals?

    How about introducing the/a more chaotic dimension there, and launch both scenarios at the same time, to present something different and engaging and confusing and as stealthy as a bloodless background intelligence coup which does not accept fools as tools in high office and totally unfit and unsuitable for future great game purpose.

    Up for yes, down for no ... :-)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    "Yet all raise the same fundamental questions about how we sustain both liberty and security..."

    "So we've decided to ditch the liberty part. Vote Labour!! After all, we'll know how you filled your ballot out!!"

    1. Mike Smith
      Big Brother

      Re: "Yet all raise the same fundamental questions about how we sustain both liberty and security..."

      I do wish you hadn't said that. I wouldn't put it past the LaborPartei to float legislation that would allow the security services to open ballot boxes at will to help them find $BOGEYMAN.

      In fact, I'm not sure what I find scarier - whether they might do that, or the fact that it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Yet all raise the same fundamental questions about how we sustain both liberty and security..."

        "In fact, I'm not sure what I find scarier - whether they might do that, or the fact that it wouldn't surprise me if they did."

        There are early signs they are learning the skills.

  14. Roj Blake Silver badge

    And to think that my hatred of the Tories almost had me backing Labour.

    Thanks for confirming that Labour hasn't changed after all, Ms Cooper.

  15. Bernard M. Orwell

    Translation

    "At one point, she noted that master NSA squealer* Edward Snowden had damaged the image of national security by exposing the scale of surveillance being carried out by spooks on both sides of the Atlantic."

    Translation: "Oh god! We got caught! We're sorry we got caught! We'll make sure we don't get caught again! It was so bad of us to get caught! We look soooo bad because we got caught!"

    *I doubt the minister used the word "squealer". I suspect that someone else applied that particularly choice term for some other, unbeknown reason.

    1. Smarty Pants

      Re: Translation

      Or Translation: "Oh god! We got caught! We're sorry we got caught! We'll make sure we don't get caught again! It was so bad of us to get caught! We look soooo bad because we got caught!"

      So what we will do is change the rules so what we got caught for is no longer wrong therefore we cannot be 'caught' for doing it as it is legal now.

  16. earl grey
    Trollface

    Well, at least we know it will never be misused

    what could possibly go wrong?

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