Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight.
Quote: "You seem to be unable to follow the consequences that follow from your logic. Perhaps your musings on cats and quantum theory are a way of distracting yourself from these consequences?"
It must be because as a freetard I am somehow incapable of logical thought, maybe I should bow down to your superior reasoning. Or maybe I'll just accept the fact that our opinions differ and let you mock me some more out of a sense of i-don't-give-a-crap. Perhaps your mocking of freetards is a way of distracting yourself from your inability to properly articulate your own opinion.
Quote: "If artists cease to be remunerated from the popular enjoyment of their art, then art will not stop being made. We'll just get a lot less of it, and we'll get a lot more rubbish.
If producers cease to be remunerated for curating and maintaining archives of great old music, and find nuturing and promoting great new music, then we won't stop getting music. We'll just get a lot less of it."
So you've said already. As I've already pointed out, I don't mind there being less music because frankly we're drowning in the stuff at the moment. Maybe you could expand on your point about it getting more rubbish by explaining how/why.
Quote "You might care to open your eyes a bit. You're obviously not a music lover."
Ok, I am a masochistic music listener then if that pleases you.
"You seem to be missing my point: if an industry (music, film, automotive etc.) has its products rendered valueless (i.e. you can't sell cars if they can be legally obtained for nothing) then the industry will cease to exist."
Again with the car comparisons, I shall sum up my disdain for the comparison with one phrase: Apples to Oranges. Cars are not intellectual property. No one is suggesting that stealing cars becomes legal. As for the industry ceasing to exist.. that is the point of the exercise. Thoughts have become a commodity. You may like that, I don't.
"Every copyright theft is a "commercial interest"; you seem to be asserting that if the victim doesn't immediately notice the crime then it's alright? What if someone "shares" your car every night? If they replace the petrol and fiddle the odometer you might not know anything's happened, so it's OK then?
There is a basic bottom line to this; either we give legal protection to IP or we don't. Society has to make this decision and then live with the consequences, but Freetards live in a world where, essentially, everything is just "free" with no real ideas as to how this might actually be paid for. At the moment, because "sharing" is illegal the ratio of Freetards to paying punters is low, so the existing economic model can cope (a bit like shops and shoplifters), but as soon as you legalise "sharing" then that model vanishes and we either get a new way of paying for content production (maybe state funded music and film; terrific comrade!) or accept that content production stops."
I knew the commercial interest compromise was going to bite me back. Fine, if you don't like compromise then I shall drop that comment and instead assert that all intellectual property is bad and that we should live in a world perfected by me.
Back to the point, by your logic I should probably get arrested for sneezing because it might cause a hurricane the other side of the world. 'sharing' a car every night is certainly a better analogy than stealing a car but still kinda misses the mark. What makes someone borrowing your car without your knowledge a bad thing? It isn't the lack of revenue afforded by the fact you could have been renting your car out.. because chances are you wouldn't rent your car out at night anyway. It is because it is your property and you don't trust someone else with it for fear of loss. That is where cars differ from information. Information doesn't HAVE to be property, you stand to lose nothing by sharing it unless there is say.. a law in place to make it into property. Which brings us back to round abouts square one which is where I say I don't like the idea of intellectual property and you say it is essential.
Woah I'm getting dizzy with all this going around in circles, next stop please.
Quote: "But musicians and producers and sound technicians and all the other people involved in turning art into something that can play on an MP3 player do need to make money (do you work for nothing Ian?)."
Yes I do work for nothing, it is called voluntary work. Which has nothing to do with the issue at hand anyway.
Everyone needs to make a living. How they make it is up to them. I feel the words burning into my retina as I type this again but.. copyright has been around 350 years. Art has been around a lot longer. I am well aware of the fact that special effects marvels that are currently two a penny would be a lot rarer without copyright but as much as I liked the matrix I can't say I'd miss it any more than I'd miss a good book. To be honest, books would be a better argument than music or film for copyright. Books were where copyright originated and where it is most relevant. It is interesting that no one pro copyright has brought up books yet, if I was playing devils advocate it would be central to my argument. If I was going to consider a form of copyright for anything books would be at the front of the queue.
Quote: "I think you don't understand human nature; if "sharing" isn't illegal then almost everyone will "share", rendering IP valueless. Will you be paying for digital recordings if someone is willing to "share" them with you?"
Human nature is not determined by law. The fact that otherwise 'lawful' people flaunt copyright because they disagree with it is an example of that. It is only about what you can get away with if you are being treated like schoolkids (don't get me started on that can of worms). Tell me, do you require murder law to prevent you from going around killing people? You may be insecure in your ability to make responsible choices but I am not. You may not trust other people to make responsible choices but in an issue such as this it should be none of your business as any harm done is pure speculation anyway.
Quote: "I think, Ian, that you just want free stuff but don't want to be labelled a criminal by the law. Why not? I would have more respect for someone who steals "honestly" and doesn't whinge for the laws on theft to be removed; at least they have accepted the risks associated with crime and aren't trying to portray it as some kind of revolutionary act for the freedom and benefit of all (All intellectual property is theft comrade!)."
This brings me to my free gift to all who use the word freetard, it is a rant. You are bigots. You act like being lawful makes you right. You make what might otherwise be serious statements while insulting complete strangers. You automatically presume a complete strangers intentions to be selfish. I wonder if you are so obnoxious in person too, as much as I enjoy banter it does tend to get in the way of the actual issues when you can't tell someone to be polite or bugger off.
I think it is the fear of the unknown, maybe people can't or don't want to imagine what life was like before copyright. It boils down to personal choice in the end though.