back to article BOFH: The devil's in the contract details

BOFH logo telephone with devil's horns The Boss is negotiating a contract with a vendor, which is a sight to behold. On their side, they have a new contracts manager who has to break the bad news that: their costs have gone up appreciably in the past years; their product has been improved to a level that governments now use …

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  1. MisterHappy
    Coat

    Sounds far too familiar

    Although they do usually include a lady sales rep because of reasons...

    1. xyz123 Silver badge

      Re: Sounds far too familiar

      You're actually correct.

      Once attended negotations with a major software company where they literally sent a large breasted woman in a blouse 2 sizes to small, to jiggle enthusiastically during a product demonstration. I can't tell you which company sent Mrs Boobies to bounce her way excitedly through a powerpoint, as I can't quite 'recall' the name of the firm.....maybe one of my colleagues who was copiloting the negotations can help.....

      1. MiguelC Silver badge

        Re: Sounds far too familiar

        At a previous job I was the technical guy sent to explain the technical parts/escort the well endowed sales lady.

        I can tell you it was hard keeping a straight face while enduring the client's comments à propos her silhouette whenever she wasn't present - and even some innuendos while she was.

        Yeah, lots of men are pigs, no matter how well educated they might be

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Sounds far too familiar

          Sex sells and anyone who pretends otherwise deserves all they get.

        2. spuck

          Re: Sounds far too familiar

          Which men are the bigger pigs: the ones who buy because the salesperson is all curvy in the right places, or the men who send those salespeople to close the deal?

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Sounds far too familiar

            The only time I've had the well-endowed lady show up she both knew her stuff AND the product was good enough that we kept using it for a decade

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sounds far too familiar

        I recall a situation many tears ago (albeit related to ironmongery that IT). The company I was working for had bought a lot of very expensive tubing and we needed some special racks to protect it during shipping (from the other side of the world). A German company had a good reputation for the type of product we needed and they submitted a bid - but the design was torn to shreds by one of our in-house engineers. Indignant, the "potential" supplier's engineering manager came over to the UK to explain how our own engineer was totally wrong. I greeted him on arrival at our offices and took him to meet our engineer. He hadn't expected our engineer to be an extremely attractive (and well-endowed) young lady. Once he'd regained his composure (well, some of it, for any hint of superiority or aggression he'd started to show melted away) they started to talk tech - and nor had he expected her to be an extremely competent engineer. Within a few minutes, he was putty and his designs were quickly updated with our requirements. They got the order (with a serious discount - partly because we would be a valuable customer for their marketing, and partly because of - well, he'd been thoroughly outclassed) - and the tubing subsequently arrived at our yard in pristine condition.

      3. TheWeetabix Bronze badge

        Re: Sounds far too familiar

        I’ve had a similar experience, although, as I myself am partial to the fruity side of life, it was more hilarious than effective.

  2. ortunk
    Coat

    Feels like oracle

    I'll take my coat

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Feels like oracle

      The one they have already rifled the pockets of for any loose change you somehow did not pay them?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Feels like oracle

      If that did feel like Oracle, you'll need to put your trousers on again too.

      1. DJV Silver badge

        Re: Feels like oracle

        ...after removing their vice-like grip from your short and curlies...

    3. DoContra
      Angel

      Re: Feels like oracle

      First thing that came to mind was VMWare under the Broadcom umbrella, although to be fair Oracle's VirtualBox has had a massive red pill[1] for far, far longer than Oracle Java's[2] (and Oracle Java's red pill is COVID-adjacent).

      [1]: The proprietary VirtualBox extensions (needed/beneficial for all but the most basic VM usage scenarios) under their bespoke PUEL (Personal User Evaluation License), free only for non-commercial use.

      [2]: Oracle Java Red Pill (if it's the first time you've heard of this and rely on Java, go forth and install OpenJDK's JRE/JDK ASAP).

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Feels like oracle

        Nit-pick: the VBox extension pack adds almost nothing useful these days. All the nice USB support moved into the FOSS offering a few years ago.

        1. DoContra

          Re: Feels like oracle

          So it did! From my reading of the fine documentation[1], PCI(e) Passthrough, USB passthrough for USB >=2, and disk emulation beyond IDE, SATA (which used to be locked way back then), and virtio is now part of the base FOSS package. For my particular VM use-case PXE is a rather firm requirement[2], but I will agree the FOSS Virtualbox covers what most(/ly) reasonable people would need/expect of a desktop virtualization solution.

          Thanks for the heads-up!

          [1]: Which contradicts Oracle's own Virtualbox microsite :)

          [2]: Could mostly work-around that, but it'd involve copying ISOs around. (I use Full-fat VMs -- KVM/QEMU via libvirt with virt-manager as a front-end -- mainly for testing my PXE servers, at home and at work :))

    4. Zarno
      Trollface

      Re: Feels like oracle

      Oracle does seem to have the crystal balls to do things like that.

      They always know when you've downloaded Virtualbox or Java, after all...

      1. John 110
        Coat

        Re: Feels like oracle

        So nobody here has ever bought NHS Lab Support software then?

  3. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Inflation

    Oh, the price of second-hand carpet rolls these days...

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Inflation

      And lime, very energy-intensive manufacturing you know!

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

        Re: Inflation

        Big carbon footprint too!

        1. Brave Coward

          Re: Inflation

          Carbon footprints on the carpet? I'll have none of that!

          Signed: The Janitor.

  4. Hot Diggity

    The view

    "I think you might be able to see your office from here!"

    No? Perhaps if we try from the balcony, rather than through this dirty window which is smeared with hand prints, and what appears to be dried blood but is probably just a sun-dried tomato...

    1. tezboyes

      Re: The view

      It's the shortcut, to the 8th circle of hell.

    2. TeeCee Gold badge

      Re: The view

      Or the roof:

      "Oh that? It's a trebuchet. My assistant does stuff at the weekend with some very odd people and this is the best place to keep it.. of course you can have a closer look.".

  5. GlenP Silver badge

    Telephone Systems

    I genuinely had a telephone system salesman try the contract term trick on me.

    Having made it clear we wanted a 3 year lease (we had enough useless crap lying around that had been taken on 5 or 7 years leases when the effective life was around 3 years) he brought the paperwork and pressured me into getting it signed immediately. I made it clear that wasn't happening so he left quickly before I had a chance to check the agreement. Sure enough the agreement was for 5 years, not 3, with automatic rollovers at the same rate (most equipment leases at that time reverted to a peppercorn rate after the term as by then you'd paid for the equipment).

    The salesman didn't seem that surprised when I told him we wouldn't be signing, but he did attempt to get me to accept it anyway despite the fact I'd got a better monthly payment over 3 years with BT than his 5 year rate.

    1. BenDwire Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Telephone Systems

      That sounds like the antics of photocopier salesmen over the past decades too ... Carpet & Lime is far too good for them.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: Telephone Systems

        Carpet & Lime is far too good

        But the carpet and lime isn't for them, it is for the traceless removal of them.

        1. BenDwire Silver badge

          Re: Telephone Systems

          Indeed so. But the corpses should be left as a warning.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Telephone Systems

            Or if you bury them head down - as bike racks

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Once upon a time I dodged an employment contract bullet. I was near the end of a research assistantship and the job advertised was a college lecturer teaching MIBiol* which is supposed to be a degree equivalent. I envisaged an arrangement which would be partly teaching, partly opportunity for research. I was offered the job on the spot after the interview and taken aback. This is normally unheard of but said I'd like to think about it. The biggest impediment in my mind was that research assistantships don't pay much, neither did my wife's research student grant - we were flat broke and suddenly realised that we really couldn't afford to move for the job. They were equally taken aback that I hadn't instantly accepted but gave me a copy of the contract to sign when I was ready.

    Big mistake on their part. On reading the contract the MIBiol was a sweetener taking up about a third of the time. The rest of the time, in other words, the real job, was just straight A-Level biology teaching.

    * Membership of the Institute of Biology.

    1. Sam not the Viking Silver badge

      Contract Conditions

      I was given a project to handle from the very start and the contractor gave us his standard T&Cs coupled with the detailed description; largely our tender in response to their specification. Except that the copy I was given to sign had been modified very much to their advantage. Before handover, I went through the details and corrected the contract by hand expecting to negotiate at the occasion of signing. The contractor arrived and without preamble duly signed my amended copy. On behalf of our company, I jointly signed and the contract was thus 'live'. I gave him a copy of the signed version and he went off without comment.

      They didn't find out the 'corrections' until weeks later as equipment started to be delivered.... Any disputes were referred to the signed contract.....There was no further argument but I never saw that 'negotiator' again.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Contract Conditions

        I routinely made handwritten amendments to contracts I needed to sign (initialling each change and keeping a photocopy). Most changes were to remove my liability for any problems and give me an easy exit arrangement. I never had any of them queried (TBH, I don't think they were ever read, even when I advised them I'd made a few changes). Mind you, I'd usually done the necessary diligence before getting to that stage and already had a good working relationship with the people I'd actually be dealing with.

        I found it wasn't uncommon for the front line personnel being just as frustrated with their contracts department; I remember one (very large company) where my contact apologised for the length of the contract they were asking me to sign, and pointed out several parts where they'd be quite happy if I changed it (which I duly did). In fact, they were also the company that once had an invoice mix up and paid me twice - I sent them. cheque to refund the duplicate payment but they didn't cash it. My accountant said that, whilst he routinely had to deal with "bad debts" for his clients, this was the first "bad credit". Once we'd sorted out the VAT and tax, it paid for our next family holiday :)

  7. ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo Silver badge

    Checking the boxes

    "It means software developed by people with pony tails. And beards. Beardy, pony-tailed people who use words he doesn't understand. And women! This is probably how communism started – and they'll come for the managers first!!!"

    pony tail - check

    beard - check

    a dislike of managers - check

    However, I am not a female though.

    1. rafff

      Re: Checking the boxes

      Pony tail AND beard AND female? They probably exist.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Checking the boxes

        Yes, WE DO.

        anon for... reasons.

        1. Outski

          Re: Checking the boxes

          Are you Cheery Littlebottom, Captain Angua's friend?

          1. J. Cook Silver badge

            Re: Checking the boxes

            Negative, although I do have pyromantic tendencies. :D

            I am certainly a friend of Dorothy, though.

      2. The Organ Grinder's Monkey

        Re: Checking the boxes

        Ponytail, beard & large breasts certainly coexist.

    2. Paul Crawford Silver badge
      Terminator

      Re: Checking the boxes

      However, I am not a female though.

      Oh that can be arranged...

      1. LogicGate Silver badge

        Re: Checking the boxes

        Please sit on that chair with the whole in the middle, and I will go and get the two bricks.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Checking the boxes

        >Oh that can be arranged.

        Although it does require pressing 4 keys in Emacs

        1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Checking the boxes

          Extract Male Attachment Control Sequence?

        2. Bebu sa Ware
          Coat

          Re: Checking the boxes

          Although it does require pressing 4 keys in Emacs

          Thoroughly pissed myself on that one! :))

          I will have to be more careful in future. I only know the key sequence to exit emacs but often forget even that and just have a punt no realizing the potential hazards of such cavalier behaviour.

    3. chivo243 Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Checking the boxes

      Pony tail, grey - check

      beard, grey - check

      dislike of upper management, - check (my line manager is pretty good)

      And, I too am not a female.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Checking the boxes

        Pony tail? No way. It's thinning too much without risking the extra drag.

  8. Wang Cores

    "It means software developed by people with pony tails. And beards. Beardy, pony-tailed people who use words he doesn't understand. And women! This is probably how communism started – and they'll come for the managers first!!!"

    Man, stop making it sound so good!

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      If OpenSource was really written by communists every project would immediately split into fractions who did nothing but argue about tiny details of design that nobody outside their group cared about

      Opensource projects aren't like this - except for Gnome and fsck those tankies

      1. Anonymous IV
        Alert

        > If OpenSource was really written by communists every project would immediately split into fractions

        Are you sure you didn't mean split into fractals?!

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          If groups split into fractals wouldn't there be an unending sequence of ever finer divisions of opinion until every individual was arguing within themselves?

          Oh, I see your point

          1. Zoopy

            Yeah, but if you look more closely at their argument, ...

            ... Never mind. You still see his point.

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