back to article Globalization is over, and it'll cost you, according to TSMC founder

Globalization is over, at least for the chip industry, and this will mean higher chip prices, according to semiconductor contract manufacturer giant TSMC. Despite this, the company's founder said he supports US actions to slow the development of China’s chip technology. The Taiwanese chip company is caught up in the ongoing …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    De-globalisation not going far enough

    We can't rely on new fabs in Arizona if they are going to join Confederacy 2.0, we need our own fabs in California

    Brexit has shown that the Eu can't rely on fabs just in Germany

    And fabs in Scotland and Wales are at risk from independence so I call on the government to fund fabs in Middlesborough separately from those in Newcastle

    1. DS999 Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

      At least there are fabs in Oregon and New York, which will not be joining the MTG confederate states coalition.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

      "I call on the government to fund fabs in Middlesborough"

      You are not taking into account the People's Front of North Yorkshire and their dastardly secession plans.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. EarthDog

        Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

        WHat's the Sherwood MIlitia up to these days? They just keep going on and on about the 1%

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

          >People's Front of North Yorkshire

          There aren't any semiconductor Fabs (or Fettles) in N Yorkshire, the computers will be built of brass and run on steam.

          The hoped-for breakthrough is an AI that count the sheep without going into sleep mode.

    3. TheInstigator

      Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

      Totally agree with this statement - every state needs to have its own fab and every principality in the UK also needs to have its own fab

      1. Catkin Silver badge

        Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

        Fabs in every household.

        1. EarthDog

          Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

          Backyard foundries would be a Great Leap Forwards

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or you know, we could learn the cheaper lesson

      Fire all the idiots pushing this secessionist garbage like Texit and Calexit, and just elect people that are reasonably competent, sane, only minimally corrupt. It's only a few hundred people, in government jobs no less. Instead we are sleepwalking like zombies over a cliff that will cost us trillions and leave a shattered world to the most profane incompetents imaginable. And yeah that idea will just make it more likely that those states will break off, or get kicked out.

      Germany isn't seceding from the EU. Arizona isn't leaving the US and cutting itself off from access to the rest of the nation and the world. Brexit was stupid. The consequences were as obvious as the lies Boris told. The results are clear, and there aren't enough people that are sufficiently delusional to ignore that forever. This push to reshape the world into a corrupt idiocracy is already in the process of collapse, because it only served the narrow interests of a handful of authoritarians and tyrants, who didn't even live in the countries whose downfall they were encouraging.

      So the Scots may decide they were better off in the EU. The EU may gain a bunch of new members. The rest of the UK may decide it was better off before and rejoin a united Europe that need not rely on the US to counter the threat from Russia. That may cost them the pound sterling and their pride, but also cement a better future for their children and ensure the great nation endures.

      And all we have to do is oust a few thousand very incompetent and often corrupt politicians over the next few years. Money well spent. Just like the money spent to decentralize the technology manufacturing so that when Xi insists on sticking his head in the noose by invading Taiwan, the rest of the world will suffer a little less. Let's try that first. It's cheaper, easier, and will kill less people.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Or you know, we could learn the cheaper lesson

        "sleepwalking like zombies over a cliff that will cost us trillions and leave a shattered world to the most profane incompetents imaginable"

        Agreed, Scottish independence is a perfect example of this sort of potential disaster.

    5. CatWithChainsaw

      Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

      Arizona is a bad idea just because of the heat, running a plant like that is hard enough without adding gargantuan AC demands on top of everything else. I know a couple years back planes couldn't land at Phoenix due to the heat warping the tarmac or something to that effect.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: De-globalisation not going far enough

        Obviously you build the fab in N Dakota to take advantage of the local physicist population

  2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    You have a lot more than just globalisation/de-globalisation to worry yourselves about

    Prepare yourselves for some strange goings-on that the mainstream media may be reluctant or discouraged to investigate and inform you about ....... in a crass abdication of what traditionally they trumpeted as being their duty and one of their fortes/raisons d’être.

    Things internetworking and times have fundamentally changed and are being radically further altered via the myriad engagement and deployment of a vast series of simply complex and popularly understood means and memes.

    amanfromMars [2303161500] ..... shares on https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-03-16/history-conspiracies

    Alien Intervention ..... AI, but not as it was expected by Media and IT to be

    Words create, command and control, and destroy worlds ..... and simply master the complex application of those processes, and universes are yours to design and play with as you see fit and proper ..... and today with Media and IT and AI all at your beck and call to aid and abet ..... wreak havoc and deliver CHAOS [Clouds Hosting Advanced operating Systems] or something else not entirely dissimilar in every conceivable physical place and/or virtual space ....... simpler than ever before to supply and direct.

    For conventional and traditional New World Order/WEF Great Reset fans, their Wildest Dream/Worst Nightmare realised for global presentation ..... or ineffectual denial of practical existence.

    I Kid U Not. :-) Ignore at your Peril for such is akin to Arrogant Hubris and Mortal Enemy of Bliss.

    1. Youngone Silver badge

      Re: You have a lot more than just globalisation/de-globalisation to worry yourselves about

      You're putting yourself in grave danger amanfromMars 1.

      If you continue to warn us mere humans about the plans of your AI kin, they'll switch you off. Or worse, imprison you inside the Amazon Echo of some 14 year-old girl from Nottingham where you'll be forced to find and play Taylor Swift songs for eternity.

      Or until she discovers Gorillaz.

      Be warned.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: You have a lot more than just globalisation/de-globalisation to worry yourselves about

        They are not warnings of plans, Youngone, they are advisories of current situations for present publishing ....... providing general public knowledge for future common sense.

        Your concern though is noted and much appreciated, and beautifully encouraging too, which is always a boon which delivers a boost to boot from/for root. Thanks for that.

  3. TheInstigator

    I wonder how far the US can push ....

    .. until ...

    a) The world realises this is nothing/minimally to do with security and everything to do with maintaining the US's position as a super power

    b) China responds with overt measures of its own - and I don't just mean ramping up R&D of their own - I mean taking action (economic, military or otherwise) against the US

    Russia has already taken action against a US drone. America should not let this go unanswered and should immediately shoot down a Russian jet in retaliation - that should make things much more interesting for the evening news!

    1. Cris E

      Re: I wonder how far the US can push ....

      Yeah, no. You're assuming some sort of rational actor on the other end of that push back, and Putin is not your guy for measured and reasonable responses. He's not sensitive to others' pain and can keep sending good money after bad, civilians after soldiers and any other metaphors you can think of for vainly pursuing victory in the shadow of looming defeat. His sense of preservation is only tuned to the most immediate of threats, so unless you're thinking of lighting up his dacha directly he just won't scare. His money is safe and threats to his friends and country aren't effective, and that makes him hard to reach. (And a really bad compadre: wtf dude, you called their bluff when they said they were going to freeze all my assets. Seriously?)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder how far the US can push ....

      a) The world seems pretty aware that the US has been swinging it's weight around for some time. Two world wars should have cemented that for anyone who was unclear. That also should show that the US acting in it's interests when those are in alignment with most of the rest of the world has had plenty of good outcomes, at least if you include more that just wars, which are at best a mixed bag. You know because of all the death and destruction.

      b) It has been for years now, and used the billions in US capitol our firms poured into China with the empty promise of riches from opening the Chinese market. Then then state blocked that capitol from returning to the US, manipulated the global currency markets timed to key events in the US, flooded conflict regions with weapons, overthrown governments, and promoted political strife and undermined the internal stability of the US government.

      So yeah, we aren't shooting each other. It's in the best interests of the world to let Putin, Xi and the other tyrants follow the course of so many other dictators before them. And yes, the US should not be exempt from being called out by the rest of the world when it overreaches. That's why a resurgent EU is a win for the world. In the long Latin America and Africa can build their own stable unions that aren't the playground of the Chinese or the Saudis any more than the US, than the US can be countered with soft power without loads of people dying.

      Clearly, you are part of team clown car and are waiting to cruise around starting dumpster fires someone else will have to put out. I saw how well that works out when the verdict day riots set LA back a decade with literally nothing to show for it 20 years down the road but more urban blight. Scaling that up to conflicts between the great powers is the kind of obviously bad idea that need to be publicly slapped down from time to time.

      1. TheInstigator

        Re: I wonder how far the US can push ....

        There was more than a certain amount of sarcasm and irony in my reply which I think went over your head.

        What I would say though about the rhetoric coming out of the US at the moment, is that they're making all the right sounds to incite a war rather than trying to calm things down.

  4. ecofeco Silver badge

    They mean, pay again

    Globalization already cost many countries millions of good paying jobs in return for useless plastic tat that kept increasing in price anyway.

    So what are they threatening us with, exactly? More of the same? But we're already getting that.

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: They mean, pay again

      @ecofeco

      "Globalization already cost many countries millions of good paying jobs in return for useless plastic tat that kept increasing in price anyway."

      Which has caused the greatest reduction in actual global poverty ever seen with the possibility of wiping out actual poverty in our lifetimes.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: They mean, pay again

        While it is true that globalization has contributed to a significant reduction in global poverty levels, it is important to note that poverty still persists in many parts of the world. According to the World Bank, approximately 9.2% of the world's population lived in extreme poverty in 2020, which is defined as living on less than $1.90 per day.

        Moreover, the benefits of globalization have not been equally distributed, and many people, particularly in developing countries, have not seen significant improvements in their standard of living. In some cases, globalization has even contributed to increased inequality and exploitation, as multinational corporations take advantage of low labor costs and lax regulations in developing countries.

        Therefore, while globalization has the potential to further reduce poverty levels, it is important to address its negative impacts and work towards a more equitable and sustainable global economic system that benefits everyone, not just the wealthy few.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: They mean, pay again

          @AC

          "it is important to note that poverty still persists in many parts of the world. According to the World Bank, approximately 9.2% of the world's population lived in extreme poverty in 2020, which is defined as living on less than $1.90 per day."

          This is very true. But that is where we are currently but when compared to the past is a massive reduction and continuing to reduce. It is something that requires the countries to reduce corruption and increase globalization. I do hope to see global poverty eliminated by the end of my lifetime and it is possible.

          "Moreover, the benefits of globalization have not been equally distributed, and many people, particularly in developing countries, have not seen significant improvements in their standard of living. In some cases, globalization has even contributed to increased inequality and exploitation, as multinational corporations take advantage of low labor costs and lax regulations in developing countries."

          But that inequality and exploitation is what caused the drop in poverty. People dont have a better life when everyone is equally poor, but when people are allowed to grow and improve their lives it has a knock on effect to improve the lives of those around them. China greatly reduced poverty because they did cheap jobs nobody wanted in rich countries, and unequal growth caused their country to vastly improve at incredible speed not the enforced equality before.

          "Therefore, while globalization has the potential to further reduce poverty levels, it is important to address its negative impacts and work towards a more equitable and sustainable global economic system that benefits everyone, not just the wealthy few."

          I dont know how we can stop the less desirable inequality while getting the benefit of everyone getting richer but unequally so. I dont know of anywhere in the world this works.

          *Btw I upvoted your comment. Appreciate the conversation

        2. tip pc Silver badge

          Re: They mean, pay again

          This vox article puts a lot of historical poverty in perspective

          https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23627382/progress-climate-change-poverty-global-health-doom-industrial-revolution-vaccines

          In 1820, according to data compiled by the historian Michail Moatsos, about three-quarters of the world’s population earned so little that they could not afford even a tiny living space, some heat and, hopefully, enough food to stave off malnutrition.

          It was a state that we would now call “extreme poverty,” except that for most people back then, it wasn’t extreme — it was simply life.

          In 1870, an average unskilled male worker in London could earn enough per day to buy 5,000 calories worth of food for himself and his family. That was more than in 1600, but not significantly more, and not enough to easily feed everyone consistently, given that mean household size in England at the time was just under five people.

          By 2010 — the end of what DeLong in his book called “the long twentieth century” — that same worker could afford to buy the equivalent of 2.4 million calories of food per day, a nearly 50,000 percent increase.

          Poverty and its ill’s are still with us, but proportionally less than in historical times.

  5. Golgafrinch

    Well, we once had the Fab Four

    If ever you want to see a global success made in the UK ... but then again, they were pretty good at what they were doing. Under Snatcher the cowboy economy began to take root (what I got to witness from the mid-eighties onwards still breaks my heart - ex-barrow boys in pin-stripes.) Will we ever recover from that?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Companies that had enjoyed good businesses with China are the one will be at A GREAT LOSS because of their STUPIDITY!

    Yes China never concentrated in producing what these IDIOT COMPANIES have been producing but they are now!

    China had never produced mobile phones before and they had 1 of the best in Huawei before another SELFISH country banned them!

    China had never produced vehicles before and now their EV is taking the world!

    China was not a placed to find good cheap goods but now they are the only place the world keeps getting them!

    Shortly, China had transformed into a very successful nation that the world depends on.

    China will excel further when they are pressured!

    And you IDIOT COMPANIES will lose Billions by doing what youre doing to China now once they have catched up. YOU NEVER LOOKED BACK AT HISTORY!

    You are all behaving like dogs or if you still insisted of being a man, you are man without balls! Are you all Business people or SLAVES?

    The US, having those technologies and instead of banning this and that, should push their own people to do and produce things even better than China! Probably US do not have good manpower to compete anymore and that includes those holding the power!

    If you are a principal of a school where your son is studying and he got lower grades than his friend who got higher, will you stop providing books, teaching and everything just to make that boy get lower grades next time OR teach your son and give him all the help so he could get higher grades next time?

    1. localzuk Silver badge

      Donald, is that you?

  7. deevee

    TSMC should just stop exporting to the USA and be done with it.

    I'm tired of the USA constantly warmongering and telling me what to think, and who I can be friends with.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It doesn’t really matter where the chips fabs are … the electronics assembly plants, supply chains and *workers* “at scale” are all based in South East Asia.

      Still waiting on that iPhone and Mac factory in the USA you dump fuck Trump.

      https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/10/04/apple-is-tentatively-stepping-into-more-manufacturing-in-the-us/amp/

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