back to article US Department of Homeland Security warns American business not to use Chinese tech or let data behind the Great Firewall

The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has published a guide to the terrifying risks that businesses will expose themselves to if they use tech created in the Peoples’ Republic of China (PRC) or engage in any business activity with the Middle Kingdom. The fifteen-page “Data Security Business Advisory” [PDF] …

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  1. steviebuk Silver badge

    Surely

    That also means Apple kit. Whats to say no chips are secretly added to their kit.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surely

      That old chesnut...

      Whast to say that each and every dose of the Covid Vaccine does not contain a chip made by Bill Gates that will track your every step.

      Sheesh!

      People will soon start believing that the sun is an interrogation light used by the NSA.

      1. Richard Jones 1

        Re: Surely

        Try getting that through a hypodermic. Where is the mega register or all these mythical chips all coded with the same data?

        1. LybsterRoy
          Happy

          Re: Surely

          Pets are given their microchip through a hypodermic. Only a bit bigger than a stabndard one

      2. steviebuk Silver badge

        Re: Surely

        Wasn't saying it as a conspiracy theory, I don't believe in that bollocks, it was just a point wanted to say :) as I typed it, I knew it wouldn't be possible as someone in Apple obviously would get random samples of built kit from the Chinese factory and would of course check. I still think the point is valid though.

        If Trump thinks pure Chinese kit is comprised, why doesn't he question anything that is America owned yet made in China? Much less chance of said kit being compromised if the American company does proper checks but you could potentially just do the same with the pure Chinese kit.

      3. Nameless Faceless Computer User

        Re: Surely

        My every step is already tracked at myactivity.google.com. No need for injecting chips and such.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Surely

        World of difference between "secret" chips and functionality in an electronic device and chips in a vaccine, but there you go.

        {carnivore_bait}

        I'm not worried about Bill Gates tracking me, but I would be worried if they collected a DNA sample from everyone, say under the guise of a test for some mythical pandemic, matched to your name and address, and then administered the alleged vaccine from a syringe or ampule that had been one of many taken from a rack or tray in a certain sequence, since they could match "tray n1, row n2, column n3" - and the id number of the chip inside it - to the person receiving it.

        {/carnivore_bait}

        Anon because I don't want them to track me, obs.

      5. J27 Silver badge

        Re: Surely

        That vaccine thing is ludicrous, but the NSA/large corporations are tracking you everywhere you take you smartphone right now and if not them other intelligence agencies. Does anyone actually review the data? Not unless the algorithms flag it or they have a reason to suspect you. But they are gathering data on nearly everyone all the time.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surely

      Some people really appear to believe that "adding a chip" is just pasting it on, it will be totally invisible, unnoticeable, and yet it will work perfectly. All other chips and their software will immediately do its bidding so it can use the ether to communicate with its Masters.

      Too much watching of not-the-greatest Hollywood productions, maybe...

      1. Aleph0
        Joke

        Re: Surely

        Yup, the microchip won't work correctly until at least version 3, so we're good until SARS-Cov-4 arrives.

    3. J27 Silver badge

      Re: Surely

      You don't need to add a physical chip to capture data, software modifications are much easier to hide. Some companies like Lenovo have already been caught deploying spyware.

  2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    As Mad as a Hatter Determined to Fail Spectacularly in an Epic Display of Hubristic Self-Harm ‽ .

    Well, I'm sure to not be the only voice to ask if the United States Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) fifteen-page “Data Security Business Advisory” [PDF] is irrefutable proof positive Uncle Sam has slipped into the deep and dark desponds which server paranoid schizophrenia as fodder and feed to try and protect a rotten body riddled to excess with its wares?

    So much for that ages old stalwart adage of competition being the lifeblood of open free markets and business enterprise ..... although the markets have been rigged forever since whenever it was realised by an arrogant, never ever thought we'd be found out few, fickle fantasies only require silent obedient labour and ignorant worker bees can be easily capitalised with public debt and fancy printed paper as a currency for massive private profit and colossal population captivation and willing engagement ....... Effective Practical Capture and Remote Virtual Enslavement.

    That is not to say that such is not a great plan, for its elegant and attractive simplicity is a joy to behold and admire, the problem and shame is that it is administered and exercised so abysmally by executive elites not up to the tasks required of the future as future directors/present producers.

    It is easily fixed though with a radical change needed resulting in the engagement of Future Greater Grand Task Masters. Such is certainly the most wise and surely simplest of any available option if one wants to escape the crushing destructive defeats and ignominious increasingly rapid annihilations that competing against or opposing them deliver out of the blue, totally unexpected and with one completely unprepared for the consequences resulting in such ill-conceived actions.

  3. fpx
    Megaphone

    Mandatory backdoors, key sharing, and data harvesting are evil? Indeed. Now put your foot where your mouth is and stop demanding the very same at home.

    1. b0llchit Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Pot, meet kettle. Nice to meet you. Kettle, meet pot. Nice to meet you too.

      Pot and kettle, please be very wary when you meet wok.

      1. renke

        But one has to admit that "CLOUD Act" is a better name than "2017 National Intelligence Law" :)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Sorry...

          I though you said "Clown Act".

  4. Chris G Silver badge

    What's yours is ours

    And we don't want to share it with China or anyone else.

    1. nematoad Silver badge

      Re: What's yours is ours

      "...violations of U.S. privacy laws;"

      Do they have any?

      1. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: What's yours is ours

        "privacy laws"

        In theory, yes but if you look at for example, Pompeo's comments and voting history in Congress regarding privacy and surveillance, it is clear that even in the West and the 'Land of the free™', our so called leaders don't trust us with our own thoughts.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What's yours is ours

        That sentence really made me wonder as well...

  5. Potemkine! Silver badge

    On a similar subject

    I got a very interesting letter from the DGSI (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Intérieure) warning about the risks of using clouds outside EU. Very enlightening.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: On a similar subject

      So the UK is a military threat to the EU!

      Now we can show them when it comes to fishing negotiations

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

        So the UK is a military threat to the EU! .... Yet Another Anonymous Coward

        With the current military thinking and politically incorrect and inept leaderships, is the UK no threat to anybody or anything, YAAC ...... other than themselves and the local natives who would mindlessly support them, that is.

        The world has changed and they definitely haven't in order to stay way out in front and ahead in the Great and Greater IntelAIgent Games Fields of Play and Virtual ACTivity for Programmed AI Realisation.

        Some may squawk and occasionally appear to talk the talk with some interesting smalltalk but not are equipped to walk the walk and lead in any number of new ways which deliver enlightening directions. And that's an endemic systemic failing and indicative of a lack of necessary future intelligence right at the top of those executive trees and administrative branches.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

          >Some may squawk and occasionally appear to talk the talk with some interesting smalltalk

          Is the amfM1 GPT2 writing Haikus now ?

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

            I think that sometimes somebody else has got control of the account. That one mostly made sense.

            1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

              Re: On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

              I think that sometimes somebody else has got control of the account. That one mostly made sense. ..... Doctor Syntax

              I'll take that as a compliment and evidence of great stealthy progress having been made, Doc, and would only require knowledge of what little you do not make sense of to allow us more fully to succeed in sharing what is widely known in parts/spaces/places around here for transfer and transmission and teleportation to anywhere elsewhere.

              And as far as I am aware regarding ... "I think that sometimes somebody else has got control of the account." ..... I don't think so, so therefore that is a past mistake sometimes made in the present which may easily blight and misdirect your future.

            2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

              > That one mostly made sense.

              Sign of the apocalypse that, amanfromMars1 making sense

          2. Pedantic

            Re: On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

            So it's dark and frosty outside, it's Christmas Eve (yeah!) And now I know what " Haikus" means/is! Gotta love a forum that you can learn something new from, that had nothing to do with the original subject! Happy Days..☺️ (Oh... and whilst Christmas Eve, a Merry Christmas to all, -if that's not to off topic either? LOL

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: On a similar subject, and it is sad to have to say but necessary to have it said ...

              Not being pedantic but "if that's not to off topic" should be "if that's not too off topic".

              ;)

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The document also says China’s new encryption law compels key-sharing."

    Whilst American politicians want encryption backdoored .

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's not only American politicians.

  7. Spanners Silver badge
    Big Brother

    So Basically

    We are advised by our controllers not to use Chinese kit but nobody concerned with security should give US products any shelter either.

    In fact, we need to be wary of anywhere that gives US agencies free run - any members of "5 eyes" for example.If Russia was to offer anything, I would have difficulty keeping a straight face so who are we left with?

    Does the Republic of Sealand still exist?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not long to wait

      There will soon be a colony on Mars. We will all be able to go there and claim independence from "the Earthers".

      Note: We need international laws now to stop countries claiming regions of other planets, moons, etc. "as theirs" - at the very least, they need to "belong" to everyone. Oh, that's going to be a fun game...

      1. Getmo

        Re: Not long to wait

        And the only way to enforce it is if your country has similar powers of their own.

        Neil DeGrasse Tyson claims that the only reason real progress was made in space has always been military motivated. "If China announced a base on Mars, the USA would have one there within 3 years." Right now China is essentially recreating the Apollo program, so it makes sense.

        In Scott Manley's video, "The 10 Dumbest Mistakes in Space Exploration," he lists #1 as the UK developing an orbital rocket, then canning it. It tied for 1st place with the entire Space Shuttle program. https://youtu.be/Xsqe3utT6rs?t=798

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Not long to wait

          >UK developing an orbital rocket, then canning it

          I'm not sure about that.

          Was the UK going to continue developing it through the 70s,80s,90s with the accompanying ICBM program to justify the development costs ?

          Was it going to be a (subsidised) commercial rival to Ariane ?

          Or would it be used for a couple of UK military launches a decade?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not long to wait

            Blue Streak rockets were used as the first stage of the European Europa rocket, flown by the European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO), which was a precursor to ESA.

          2. Getmo

            Re: Not long to wait

            From what I've read, Ariane space was helped greatly by the cancellation of it. British boffins freely shared details of their work with both French & German counterparts afterwards. Even old Blue Streak parts were used for the first Ariane launches.

            And because "rocket science is easy, rocket engineering is hard", it's said that once the team that understands their launch system gets dismantled, that collective knowledge essentially evaporates. To start again means essentially starting from scratch.

            At the time it was true there weren't many commercial applications, but hopefully it was obvious that would change in the future. It's been claimed that to tally all the launch costs for UK satellites on foreign boosters to date, it would've been cheaper to keep the internal development going.

            The super heavy lift launcher market is mostly already occupied by commercial companies now. Hopefully the growing small-sat market has potential for Skylon and Virgin Galactic. But even that market has competition from NZ's Rocket Lab now, and a few others.

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: Not long to wait

              But the modern commercial Ariane launchers (certainly the A4/A5) are basically French ICMBs

              So unless you are going full nuclear and using the military development to subsidise your commercial project it's hard to make $$$ - same with the US Delta vehicle.

              1. Getmo

                Re: Not long to wait

                > modern commercial Ariane launchers (certainly the A4/A5) are basically French ICMBs

                Hm, what? Really? Somehow I really doubt that, considering nuclear warheads can be made into briefcase size, <10kg. Commercial satellite launchers like the Ariane 4 can launch >2000kg into orbit. ICBMs don't even need the capability to reach low-earth-orbit, since a sub-orbital trajectory that reaches half-way round the world can reach any point on the world.

                Orbital launch capabilities, when they were first demonstrated by the USSR, were merely a scare tactic. Sputnik was essentially the same mass & size of a nuclear warhead. They demonstrated the USSR missiles were not only capable of sending warheads to the USA, but also anywhere on the planet.

                Literally all orbital capabilities developed beyond that only added to exploration, and spying. The larger mass satellites were first for spy telescopes, but also convenient for commercial applications like satellite TV.

                I can't believe the large-mass, high-capability Ariane rockets would also be used for nuclear ICBM rockets. Not only are they hugely over-capable, most liquid fuels, even if not cryogenic, are highly-corrosive, can't be stored for long periods in regular tanks. Solid rocket fuel is much better for ICBMs. Even the Indians and Chinese use it for main-stage boosters on their non-military payloads.

                1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

                  Re: Not long to wait

                  Quote

                  "I can't believe the large-mass, high-capability Ariane rockets would also be used for nuclear ICBM rockets. Not only are they hugely over-capable, most liquid fuels, even if not cryogenic, are highly-corrosive, can't be stored for long periods in regular tanks. Solid rocket fuel is much better for ICBMs."

                  In the first days of ICBMs it could take 20hrs to fill and prep a missile to launch with liquid fuels ... which is fine if you want to fire at the enemy 1 day after you've said "stop within 24hrs or you'll die"

                  Sadly it came to notice that you could secretly fill your rockets up, fire them at the enemy and he gets 8-10 mins warning before his rockets get blown up... hence the need for solid fuel rockets that could launch the instant the pyrotechnic ignition charges go off inside the thing.

                  Arriance rockets as ICBMs? only if you're aiming at the alien moonbase on the far side and they've got laser guns to shoot down incoming rockets

                2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                  Re: Not long to wait

                  That's not what I said.

                  The Ariane 4/5 (not familiar with earlier models) were based on French ICBMS

                  The Ariane4 engines are from their 1980s land based missile and the Ariane5 solid fuel boosters are from France's submarine new submarine based model.

                  ie the French defence budget ( which is like all defence budgets unlimited) is used to subsidise/hide the cost of the Ariane development, in the same way as the US Delta. So simply deciding that you are going to have a space program without also developing your own nuclear missiles doesn't work out $$$$ wise.

                  Probably the real reason for the "encouragement" to the UK to drop their rocket program from the USA wasn't the competition in the space business, it was that with it the UK wouldn't be able, financially, to buy Polaris / Trident

      2. Strahd Ivarius Bronze badge

        Re: Not long to wait

        A treaty like this one?

    2. nematoad Silver badge

      Re: So Basically

      Does the Republic of Sealand still exist?

      No, but the "Principality of Sealand" does.

      See here.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So Basically

        As does the Principality of Pontinha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Pontinha). Never been to Sealand but have made several visits to Pontinha (it's got a much nicer climate).

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: So Basically

        Have they got involved in the fishing rights negotiation?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: So Basically

          >Have they got involved in the fishing rights negotiation?

          I hope they don't decide to leave - we don't want Sexit !

    3. veti Silver badge

      Re: So Basically

      Yes, and the Sealander government has an excellent track record of standing up for privacy of people who aren't even sure it exists... </sarcasm>

      Sealand exists, in so far as it's a real thing at all, on sufferance. It exists solely because destroying it once and for all would look bad. To maintain that sufferance, it needs to not be a pain in the arse to its host country. It carefully avoids drawing official attention to itself.

  8. Elledan Silver badge
    Meh

    Don't trust anyone?

    So China is to be avoided by everyone, the US is to be avoided by EU companies due to weak privacy laws... does that mean if you dare stray outside the safety of the EU, one's data and privacy will be instantly assaulted and ripped to shreds by (Asian) dragons and fake eagles (Bald Eagle)?

    But meanwhile European governments are lobbying to have point-to-point encryption outlawed so that they can keep snooping on communications. To keep the children safe, of course.

    Anyone remember when we could still pretend the Stasi and KGB were the bad guys?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Don't trust anyone?

      That's why I keep all my data in North Korea

      I'm pretty sure I can trust them not to hand anything over to the government

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Don't trust anyone?

      You could always try buying your encryption gear from Switzerland. Or maybe not.

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