back to article BoJo buckles: UK govt to cut Huawei 5G kit use 'to zero by 2023' after pressure from Tory MPs, Uncle Sam

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has reportedly agreed to a plan that will entirely cut Huawei equipment from the nation's 5G networks within the next three years. The word from Britain late on Friday, strategically via the Guardian and Telegraph, is that Johnson has caved after months of pressure from the backbench of his …

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  1. IGotOut Silver badge

    So...

    Who's going to pay for this

    Oh yes. Us plebs

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So...

      If the first batch of 5G Nokia and Ericsson kit get vandalised due to COVID-believing nutters/vigilantes, then maybe round two of replacement kit will come from Huawei.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So...

        What do Nokia and Ericsson have to do with spreading the China Virus?

        1. Richard Jones 1
          FAIL

          Re: So...

          There is no accounting for the brain-dead stupid lot who think (or perhaps cannot think at all) a virus comes out of radios. So they go round threatening cable layers and setting fire to any masts they can find, just to prove how stupid they are.

          I am happy never to buy any more Chinese junk until they have cleaned up their foul act; it is called justice.

          1. DavCrav Silver badge

            Re: So...

            "There is no accounting for the brain-dead stupid lot who think (or perhaps cannot think at all) a virus comes out of radios."

            To be fair, that's not what they think, that would be crazy. What they 'think' is that COVID-19 is a cover story and these people are being killed by 5G signals. That's why they are assaulting cable layers and 4G masts. Obviously. And why countries with no 5G networks are suffering lots of COVID-19 deaths.

            1. Poncey McPonceface
              Black Helicopters

              Re: So...

              Unfortunately, that's not true either.

              There's this "EMF radiation is dangerous" dude, Martin L. Pall, who to the best of my knowledge is to health and WiFi (and 5G and 4G and 3G) as Andrew Wakefield is to vaccines and autism.

              I've had the misfortune of having this article https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935118300355#t0015 waved in my face: “Wi-Fi is an important threat to human health”

              I won't reproduce any of the "research" here – suffice it to say that they claim there are biochemical/bioelectrical pathways that are being messed with.

              There *are* the conspiracy nuts who think the whole thing is a giant cover-up/conspiracy – those folks are well into tin-foil hat territory and are seriously out to lunch, as in they have (and I mean this in a very literal sense) very little grasp on reality. There's another segment who are scientifically illiterate but realise that they have to make scientifically grounded claims and for these folks quacks like Pall (who push junk meta-analysis fear-mongering) are just the ticket.

              And if that wasn't bad enough these two groups are not even the same crowd as the "don't-tread-on-me, it's just the flu bro" folks.

              Not one, not two, but at least three distinct Sars-cov-2/Covid-19 rejectionists !

              I've lost friends over this so I know what I'm talking about :/

              1. DavCrav Silver badge

                Re: So...

                Don't forget the '5G signals suck oxygen out of the atmosphere' crowd.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: So...

                  I think the claim is that 5G is the same frequency as red blood cells and it affects Fe oxygen transference, which is a similar symptom to Covid19. The details escape me at present

                2. MR J

                  Re: So...

                  That could be true.

                  It would explain why the towers burn so well.....

                3. Tigra 07 Silver badge
                  Facepalm

                  Re: DavCrav

                  Don't forget the 'Windmill noises cause cancer crowd'. This unfortunately includes Donald Trump, who should really know better.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: DavCrav

                    IIRC Trump's complaint was the Low Frequency noise driving people (and cows) crazy. He is not alone in this complaint

              2. Graham Dawson Silver badge

                Re: So...

                >Andrew Wakefield

                You know what really grinds my gears about that man? There is some anecdotal linkage between measles causing gut perforation and some types of ASD, but because of wakefield's utter bollocks, nobody in their right mind would dare to even touch the idea, so there's not going to be any meaningful research into it (either to confirm or rule out the hypothesis) for probably decades.

                That's the real damage caused by quacks and "campaigns": they make whole areas of research so radioactive that few dare follow up, and anyone who does even moderately related research is pilloried as just another nutcase, no matter what they set out to test.

                1. Peter2 Silver badge

                  Re: So...

                  There is some anecdotal linkage between measles causing gut perforation and some types of ASD

                  This still doesn't even touch what Wakefield was saying; which was that the MMR vaccine was the problem. And he was saying that because the companies that were making three separate vaccines didn't want a combined vaccine so they did a smear campaign.

                  As somebody who is not neurologically typical and who therefore generally keeps up with the latest in neurology just "because", my personal view is that neurologists take too fine a view of their area of expertise and stop paying attention to anything below the neck.

                  Which I think is a mistake because people who have allergies tend to miss out on entire food types. This means that they tend to be deficient in certain things and these pass through long and only dimly understood chemical chains to create things for the brain.

                  There is a very good set of studies that will eventually be done that is likely to prove a lot of issues are related to gut bacteria or the lack thereof of particular types of it. However, this isn't really neurology so neurologists aren't interested because they are looking about 6 steps down the line and seemingly aren't interested in the precursors.

                  So yeah, it's almost certain that particular types of gut damage will result in neurological abnormalities, but as you say the area of study is verboten probably for the next century or two. Unfortunately.

              3. Harry Kay

                Re: So...

                Of courser, 5G radiation is dangerous. It's radiation innit? Must be dangerous like them noocular reactors, bombs and things.

                What about the powerful broad spectrum radiation source we see every day (if we are lucky) in the sky? Huh?

                Btw - it's shining today - aren't we lucky

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: So...

                  That'll be why Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) machines were renamed to Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI).

                  1. H in The Hague Silver badge

                    Re: So...

                    Possibly. But methinks that using the term NMR for both chemical analysis instruments (which produce a pretty graph) and medical imaging instruments (which produce essentially a photograph) is potentially confusing. So having two terms for two quite different instruments (which use the same physical principle) might be helpful.

                2. martinusher Silver badge

                  Re: So...

                  >What about the powerful broad spectrum radiation source we see every day (if we are lucky) in the sky?

                  Even when its not shining we use our own local broad spectrum radiation sources so we can see.

                  I put it down to a generation or more of poor to non-existent science education.

                3. veti Silver badge

                  Re: So...

                  Well yes, the sun is generally recognised as dangerous. That's why sunscreen is a thing, to say nothing of an entire industry of hats and parasols and sun awareness campaigns.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: So...

                    Vitamin D.

                    Sunlight is toxic to viruses and is essential in the bodies production of vitamin D. In earlier times, and even today, the therapeutic effects of sun are well understood for both physical and mental health.

                    The sun is not "generally recognised as dangerous". Over exposure is dangerous, but drinking 3 gallons of water in one go is dangerous as well, and we don't call water "dangerous" unless inhaled.

                    1. DiViDeD Silver badge

                      Re: So...

                      The sun is not "generally recognised as dangerous"

                      Absolutely. If it were, the Orange One would not have his medical experts looking for a way we can stuff sunlight up our arses to cure COVID-19.

                      Honestly, some people with their scaremongering!

                      1. P. Lee Silver badge

                        Re: So...

                        >The sun is not "generally recognised as dangerous"

                        You don't live in Australia.

                        Sunlight is very much recognised as dangerous. Children are not allowed onto the playgrounds at school without large brimmed hats. For outside swimming and the like, the general practise is sunscreen, hat, and uv-protective long-sleeved shirts. Sunglasses are also strongly recommended as sunscreen around the eyes isn't fun.

                        1 in 3 people here will get skin cancer.

                        Even growing up in the UK, I was taught to leave the bed-covers turned down for a while to allow sunlight onto the sheets.

                        And I do believe there are also companies looking at piping uv light into people's respiratory systems to disinfect them. Whether it works or not I don't know, but I don't think your understanding of what Trump was suggesting is accurate. I don't know if you would prefer to be ignorant or wilfully misleading. Either way, you don't help your cause by misrepresenting people you don't like. If it worked, I'd certainly prefer to have a light-based treatment than take a stack-load of antibiotics or retro-virals.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: So...

                          If you've ever had a child treated in hospital on a billiblanket, you'll have seen evidence of how effective UV therapy is. But much higher energy per unit area than a mobile phone antenna obvs.

                        2. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: So...

                          Looks out the window. Yep, very definitely Australia.

                          Quoting half of what I wrote makes you a dick.

                          "The sun is not "generally recognised as dangerous". Over exposure is dangerous"

                          Those two sentences together are unassailably true. Despite what your retarded understanding of the matter is.

                          Which part of Over Exposure don't you understand? People have been avoiding over exposure to the sun since we lost our body hair ... nothing new. We also avoid inhaling water.

                      2. Tigra 07 Silver badge
                        Flame

                        Re: So...

                        "The sun is not "generally recognised as dangerous""

                        Probably not a good idea to go there on holiday...

                    2. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: So...

                      I had the pleasure of reading the research papers behind the Vitamin D recommendation which only us and the US are pushing. It's based on the following, Australia has a low mortality rate because they get lots of sunshine unlike Italy and Spain (Yes, I know how stupid that sounds), countries south of the 35th parallel get more sun so are doing better (like Brazil??), Nordic countries have low mortality rates because they all take supplements (ok), they have correlated covid deaths with patient records and confirmed that vitamin D deficiency is a common factor (how would they know?). I'm not one to dick about with fake news but feel free to read those papers yourself including the ones that haven't been peer-reviewed but have been used for this recommendation. Final point, how do you get Vitamin D? That's right from the sun so in essence by giving that advice it encourages people to go out especially when everywhere has sold out of supplements. I might be wrong so keep taking your supplements if you are, they won't cause you any harm (but don't take more than the recommended amount as then it will).

            2. John Sturdy
              Trollface

              Re: So...

              I think there may be room for someone to make some money out of these idiots, by buying up sunscreen wholesale, adding an unusual colourant with a pseudoscientific explanation, and selling it as 5G protection cream.

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: So...

            It all makes so much sense, as we know that USA is a paragon of friendliness and transparency. Therefore USA must be right in all it says.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So...

            What foul act? The coronovirus?

            In society we have these things called "evidence" and "proof" and as you nor I nor anyone has any it's no good throwing round blame. There are 3 schools of thought, the virus came from an animal market, the virus came from a lab in Wuhan and the virus was planted by America. The first considering that all other corona viruses emerged via animals is the most plausible. The second feeds xenophobia towards China and the third feeds xenophobia towards America. It's a bit ironic that you are calling people stupid for a conspiracy theory then presenting one of your own. Me, I'll wait for the scientists to work out where it came from and avoid/ignore conspiracy theories. As for 5g I heard it can make your elbows bald however I have no hair on my elbows so I have nothing to worry about.

            1. TDog

              Re: So...

              You missed out option 4 which is that it accidentally leaked from the lab where it was being studied. No intent involved.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: So...

                Was that not implied in his option 2? In any case, that too was disproved quite quickly.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: So...

                  It wasn't, though. The lab in question had terrible biosecurity procedures (they documented them by accident in a press release, with a photograph showing a blown seal on one of their sample freezers, and a technician handling supposed virus samples in nearly no protective gear) and was within walking distance of the market where the breakout was claimed to have started. It was also researching coronaviruses found in bats. The host species of the virus is not native to the area.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: So...

              A rational coverage of the plausible origins and why they are (or not) plausible is here. The wet market theory is rather thin when the evidence is laid out. I expect it's option 'x', that the virus was made as part of Gain of Function research and was released accidentally. GoF research on bat viruses is a thing and lots of research papers detail the results, particularly splicing the protein that uses ACE2 receptors for entry (from HIV if I recall my reading). No need for nefarious behaviour to release it when incompetence is entirely satisfactory!

              https://project-evidence.github.io/

          4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

            Re: CHinese Junk

            Good luck not buying anything that is not made in the PRC or has some parts not made there.

            You my find it harder than you think.

            You could also boycott Bangladesh, India and a half a dozen other S.E. Asian countries while you are at it. None of them are saints.

            1. Teiwaz Silver badge

              Re: CHinese Junk

              Secret is not to buy anything that isn't locally sourced and available at you local fortnightly craft fair.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: CHinese Junk

                Ah the "Gordon Ramsay" method.

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So...

            I don't know why I down voted your comment but it had 24 already so I joined the herd.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So...

          from original A.C. poster: Sorry, was trying to link two memes -- that 5G causes Covid and that Covid came from China (and that, therefore, Scandiwegian 5G might be less bad) -- in sarcasm and failed horribly.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So...

        Are you literally staying that 5g is not alien technology that caused covid?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

    Seriously, with all the concerns about privacy; all our data going back to the Chinese government, is this move really a bad thing?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

      It most certainly is on the site that's become the tech equivalent of the Guardian, politically-speaking!

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

        Tell me AC, which IT news site better covers where you are on the political spectrum?

        1. Claverhouse Silver badge

          Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

          https://www.breitbart.com/tech/

          .

          First article off the block: U. of Kentucky Cheerleaders Defend Coaches Fired over Nude Hazing Rituals.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

            Yes, it's wrong. And stupid.

          2. Teiwaz Silver badge

            Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

            First article off the block: U. of Kentucky Cheerleaders Defend Coaches Fired over Nude Hazing Rituals.

            Does sound a better read than 'Boris backs Cummings'....

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
              Paris Hilton

              Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

              Boris backs Cummings sounds like a porn film.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

          I'm not on any spectrum. My day release handler says so.

          Now fuck off, I've got a unicorn to paint and social conduct lessons to attend.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

            Classic Dom.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

      It's an imperfect world. If you can't compete in 5G, then you can't bake your own network.

      So whose is the biggest risk? USA or China? Well it depends on if Trump is a Russian puppet or not. Given Russias aggressive interference in European politics, and military actions at the East edge, they're the most imminent threat.

      Trump just cancelling 'Open Skies' the flyovers of Russian bases by unarmed surveillance aircraft, at Putin's request, the Reagan-Republicans that negotiated asked him not to pull out of that treaty. So yeh, it's difficult to go into denial about it now. He's a Russian puppet. He'll cancel the Russian sanctions next.

      Best to play both China and US routes, and back-benchers will fall into line as they see it unfolding.

      ~2023 seems a reasonable timeline.

      Hopefully Putin will die from Corona Virus, Russia gets a pro-democracy leadership, USA-Russia relationship flips from Sub-Dom to Dom-Sub. But that's a long shot.

      1. Chris the bean counter

        Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

        Tosh , zero evidence that President Trump is under Russia's thumb.

        Last year he put a stop to the Nord2 gas line which has caused Russia no end of problems.

        Also USA is a democracy , China aint. To me it is always democracy right or wrong. Democracies rarely go to war (yes be a pedant and publish the wikipedia entry of the democracy wars, most of which only happened because one side did not hear that a peace deal had been agreed).

        Your Whataboutism is the enemy of peace and freedom.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is it wrong to be in favour of this?

          Nord Stream 2 runs from Russia to Europe. A law saying "US companies cannot be involved in construction" of a pipeline in which they are not involved, might fool you, but didn't fool anyone else:

          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-18/u-s-concedes-defeat-on-nord-stream-2-pipeline-officials-say

          "USA is a democracy , China aint"

          Watch and learn how that pans out.

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