back to article London's Metropolitan Police flip the switch: Smile, fellow citizens... you're undergoing Live Facial Recognition

The Metropolitan Police are using live facial recognition (LFR) in various locations in central London today after spending two years testing the technology. Most recently spotted at Oxford Circus, the vans are equipped with NeoFace's recognition software which runs captured images against a pre-specified list of wanted crimes …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time to dig out the Guy Fawkes mask again then.

    AC not because I don't want this attached to my Reg username, I just wanted the icon --->

    1. chivo243 Silver badge
      Pint

      Beat me to it!! I was going to add the mask should be made of tinfoil!

      Now where is that foilhat icon!

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Hijab time

        Although a black guy in a guy fawkes mask would probably cause it to explode

        1. Cynic_999

          You guys are not very imaginative. The thing to do would be to carry a life size photo of the face of a high-profile wanted criminal. Or get it screen-printed on your T-shirt (which I suspect would work). Lets' see how the police react when a wanted villain is spotted in a hundred different locations at the same time.

          1. Allan George Dyer
            Facepalm

            @Cynic_999 - "Lets' see how the police react when a wanted villain is spotted in a hundred different locations at the same time."

            Uh... they make 100 arrests, and get successful convictions for "obstruction of a Police office in the course of his duty", or "wasting Police time", or "conspiracy to defraud", so their success statistics soar!

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              If they get a 100 successful convictions for people wearing masks, it will be the Police who are seen as the enemy.

    2. Danny 2

      You buy a pair of spectacles with LEDs. Then you replace the LEDs with IR LEDs. Then you walk around as normal as normal can be, except there is a glare hiding your face on any CCTV.

      We solved and deployed this before the Guy Fawkes masks were deployed by the anti Scientologists. I have a couple of related tips if anyone is interested.

    3. phuzz Silver badge
      Coat

      In the future yes, but for now just wear a normal surgical/dust mask, and if anyone asks you can just say "corona virus innit mate".

  2. chivo243 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    That's not my picture

    He's Tuttle!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Unhappy

      Re: That's not my picture

      Now they really can arrest you for having your eyes too close together.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That's not my picture

        Other offences include:

        Being caught in possession of curly hair and thick lips

        Wearing brightly coloured clothes in a built up area.

        I think this was from a Lenny Henry sketch if memory serves....

        1. tiggity Silver badge

          Re: That's not my picture

          Your memory got some lines but not Lenny

          hint WInston Kodogo / Constable savage / NTNOCN

      2. Ken Shabby

        Re: That's not my picture

        It's a fair cop, but society's to blame.

  3. Alister

    To be fair, the gentleman in Romford was arrested and fined for threatening to kick the living shit out of a Police Officer, although said Officer did originally accost him about hiding from the cameras.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      The old 'looking at me in a funny way' then resisting arrest while being given a kicking by 6 offices

    2. Nunyabiznes

      @Alister,

      Once again no crime was committed until an officer goaded a citizen into a confrontation. This happens all too frequently (especially on this side of the pond where most police forces are pseudo-military) and there is no benefit to the public.

    3. genghis_uk

      It was on BBC Click if you want to check your facts - the guy was pulled over because he hid his face.

      The police were then 'robust' in their discussions (some could say aggressive and provocative) until the guy told them to f' off. At that point he was charged with a public order offence and given an on the spot fine.

      1. GruntyMcPugh

        @ghenghis_uk: "given an on the spot fine"

        Indeed, and that was the chap's error, if he'd opted for his day in court, it wouldn't have got there. No way would they have pursued a conviction under these circumstances. I'd never accept an 'on the spot' anything.

  4. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge
    Big Brother

    There is no legal requirement for you to pass through the LFR system.

    Yet.

    Do your public duty, Citizen.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There is no legal requirement for you to pass through the LFR system.

      Your public duty isn't to oblige the police.

  5. Chris G

    Corona masking

    I think citizens have every right to mask themselves to help prevent infection spreading in a crowded city like London and should all wear medical masks a la China and Japan.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Corona masking

      Beat me to it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Corona masking

        The eyes give you away

        1. richdin

          Re: Corona masking

          Not only eyes - the ears are a big factor

          1. GruntyMcPugh

            Re: Corona masking

            @richdin: "the ears are a big factor"

            Oi, who are you calling Big Ears?

        2. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Corona masking

          "The eyes give you away"

          The system is terrible enough working on the whole face, it would surely go to even greater shittiness levels if it had to work just on the eyes

          1. phuzz Silver badge

            Re: Corona masking

            Especially if the mask was printed to look like the bottom half of, ooo, let's say, Cressida Dick's face.

  6. DavCrav

    "The 93 per cent misidentification rate poses a serious threat to innocent members of the public."

    Out of interest, what's the mis-identification rate when in the morning briefing a bunch of constables are shown a picture of someone the Met are after then told to keep an eye out for them? I suspect that it's comparable.

    1. doublelayer Silver badge

      I think we would know about that, but fine, let's assume it's comparable. So what? Looking for someone specific and getting it wrong is a lot different from looking at everyone just in case and arresting a big chunk of them. One is not speaking well of the police's competence; the other is a violation of various rights. Oh, and the other one also means that all the police's time is spent tracking down people who the cameras get confused by, meaning they are less useful at preventing crime or catching criminals.

      1. DavCrav

        I'm saying that the average copper will see a photo of a 'young black lad' and then go around accosting young black lads.

        This method might be a bit less racist (but only a bit, as the algorithms have more trouble with black people apparently).

  7. LeahroyNake

    The next step

    Getting arrested for wearing Dame Edna glasses or on your way to a fancy dress party.

    1. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: The next step

      That sounds reasonable. Good idea, that man.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

    I'm not surprised at all. Remember that Labour under Blair and Brown pushed through or carried on with all the GCHQ nastiness that Edward Snowden uncovered. And there was ID card-gate under Labour. Then Labour topped that off by taking CCTV and license plate readers national.

    Not that the Conservatives have proven themselves better when it comes to mass surveillance, but they absolutely haven't proven themselves worse either.

    1. genghis_uk

      Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

      Yet....

    2. ma1010
      FAIL

      Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

      So UK politics are about like ours here in the USA. You can vote for Democratic (Labour) and get mass surveillance and no rights, you can vote Republican (Conservative) and get the exact, same thing. I'm so glad we have the opportunity to vote. Right? Why the silence???

      1. tfewster
        Big Brother

        Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

        One party justifies it for national security against furrin terrists, the other for protection against the greater threat of domestic criminals.

        Anyway, it''s for your own good, citizen. You have 10 seconds to comply.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Devil

        Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

        @ma1010

        No, in the U.S. if you vote Democrat you get mass surveillance and no rights. However, if you vote the Republican you get the reverse!

        1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

          Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

          No, in the U.S. if you vote Democrat you get mass surveillance and no rights. However, if you vote the Republican you get the reverse! ..... Marketing Hack

          Are you saying, Marketing Hack, vote Republican for mass rights and no surveillance, or is it a fertile emerging virgin market for hacking ‽ .

          Surely that's Extremely Elite Territory for Exploiting and Exhausting and/or Mentoring and Monitoring for Future Command and Control, Marketing Hack?

          Who is to acknowledge leading that program for Republicans? Or is it supposed and proposed to be an imposed unopposed top secret ...... which of course, now it isn't ?

          1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

            Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

            Seems like you have hit the nail directly on its head, Marketing Hack, with Michael Bloomberg, multi-billionaire Republicrat oligarch wielding the booby trap prize in his attempts to lead. ..... https://www.zerohedge.com/political/subcomandante-bloomberg-it-another-obama-wont-cut-it-folks-aint-buying-con-anymore

            Is that what they call the American Way, the gift that just keeps on giving the most to that and those proving themselves truly unworthy?

            Methinks that is catastrophically unstable and monumentally unsustainable and most likely to attract the dedicated revolutionary psychopath to its rank rank and file. It is certainly not in any way an intelligent root and route and therefore certifiably sub-prime insane in extremis.

    3. Lich

      Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

      ID Card gate? Its one thing I would bring in - it makes it a lot easier to prove who you are than proving utility bills etc.... of course until Boris 'got Brexit done' they would have doubled as a travel document in the EU.

      I live in an EU country (Malta) - everyone has ID cards (although technically mines an eResidency Permit) - the effective difference is I can't use it instead of a passport.

      It also ties into my driving licence as the driver number is the same as the ID card number.

      1. GruntyMcPugh

        Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

        @Lich: "ID Card gate? Its one thing I would bring in"

        Ah, see, the problem isn't ID cards per se, although we do have a little bit of a problem with folks who stop us and ask us for our papers,.... but that aside, the very real problem is that successive UK govts have proven themselves utterly incapable of delivering large scale IT projects. There have been failed MoD projects, National Police Computer projects, Child Support Agency #1 (abandoned) #2 (more expensive to implement than it recovered in funds), NHS national patient database, Database of children (for child protection, abandoned), the projects that haven't utterly failed have gone vastly over budget and been delivered years late. Case in point, when I turned 16, (in the mid 80s) I was issued with a National Insurance Number card, a plastic credit card bearing my name and National Insurance Number, so all the data that held was name, NI number, DoB and address. They stopped issuing these a few years later because they were deemed too costly. let that sink in. How would they manage a wider data gathering / ID verifying system? There would be a cost to us citizens? Managed by whom,.... the previous verification platforms used by Govt systems haven't been a success, with one private provider bowing out and leaving all of it's users unverified. We can't have a private company cease trading and leave our citizens in limbo, so it must be a Govt project, and our Govt are just incapable.

        Maybe you could send your guys over to help?

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

          " the problem isn't ID cards per se, although we do have a little bit of a problem with folks who stop us and ask us for our papers"

          Spot on. For the government to be able to provide various services, and for citizens to be able to use these services, it is convenient that to have a form of identification that is universally available and universally accepted. (And as a database/ BI specialist, I also kind of like unique identifiers!)

          Everyone having an ID card / unique ID number doesn't give any busybody the right to request to see it (aka papers, please, citizen). Equally, the convenience has to be balanced by - does the gov REALLY need a unique identifier for each citizen? They would say yes but UK society seems to work well enough without.

          1. onemark03

            Busybodies entitled to see your ID card?

            @ jmch:

            Afraid that's not correct.

            If the law specifically requires citizens to identify themselves to the authorities on demand with an official photograph document, such as an ID card or a driving licence, as is quite common here in continental Europe, then you've got to comply.

            If you don't, you can expect to be fined and probably arrested.

            It stinks but that's the law.

            1. jmch Silver badge

              Re: Busybodies entitled to see your ID card?

              "If the law specifically requires citizens to identify themselves to the authorities on demand with an official photograph document, such as an ID card or a driving licence, as is quite common here in continental Europe, then you've got to comply."

              I've lived in various European countries in my lifetime, UK, EU and non-EU. Whatever the law actually says, in practice it is very rare to be asked for ID by the police in Europe (outside of traffic stops), and I've never been stopped and asked for ID in 40+ years in any European country. (Of course YMMV depending on what areas / people you frequent and/or your skin colour)

              In the case of traffic stops, being asked for a driving license is to establish whether you are allowed to drive a vehicle rather than to establish your identity - and this is the same in UK as everywhere else in Europe.

      2. Roj Blake Silver badge

        Re: "appalled that [city mayor] Sadiq Khan has approved such....surveillance technology for London"

        It wasn't the cards that people objected to so much as the massive insecure database that propped the system up.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe push the idea of wearing "dazzle" makeup as the Next Big Thing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't make it easy for them.

      Only criminals wear dazzle masks ;)

  10. 1752

    Just the beginning

    Just cross reference it with the driving licence photo records and you could put a name to a high percentage of all people passing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just the beginning

      This is why my passport and driving licence have photographs of me carefully designed to break facial recognition.

      It works too, automated passport checking machines refuse to believe I'm the person in the photograph

      Plus I'm entirely naked in my passport photograph. Which is something no border official has yet commented on.

      1. Allan George Dyer
        Childcatcher

        Re: Just the beginning

        "Plus I'm entirely naked in my passport photograph. Which is something no border official has yet commented on."

        Forget about border officials, it's a head-only shot. But didn't cause a commotion in the shopping centre when you exited the photo booth?

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