back to article Fairytale for 2019: GNOME to battle a patent troll in court

The GNOME Foundation, maker of the eponymous Linux desktop, has been hit with a sueball over how its Shotwell photo manager, er, manages photos. The plaintiff, Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC, has alleged in a complaint filed at the United States District Court Northern California that defendant, GNOME Foundation, has infringed …

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  1. b0llchit Silver badge
    Facepalm

    2+2=5

    That is, for large values of two.

    The US patent system in a nutshell: How persistent must a patent applicant be before the patent examiner gives up/gives in and grants a patent, regardless the contents of the patent.

    1. TheVogon

      Re: 2+2=5

      At least as per "TC HEARTLAND LLC v. KRAFT FOODS GROUP BRANDS LLC" the trolls can no longer choose sympathetic venues in the US.

  2. Alister

    It is my understanding that the USPTO are happy to grant Patents without much checking, and rely on subsequent litigation to clarify the veracity and validity of the claim.

    Let's hope in this case the Patent is struck down.

    1. sbt
      Holmes

      Subsequent litigation.

      Now why would a government bureaucracy be operated so as to maximise the amount of litigation generated?

      Could it be due to the legal profession being such a dominant source of members and senators?

      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/26/opinion/sunday/paths-to-congress.html

      1. Dog11
        Holmes

        Re: Subsequent litigation.

        Perhaps because that government bureaucracy makes much of its funding from fees charged to patent and trademark applicants, so it has an incentive to maximize the number of patents issued. The subsequent litigation is just collateral damage.

        1. sbt
          Meh

          Re: Subsequent litigation.

          I'd have expected the bureaucrats get paid whether they accept or reject applications. There's no commissions or incentive scheme, surely? It's not piece work?

          In any case, I figured the application/processing fees were peanuts compared to what the lawyers are making.

          1. Mage Silver badge
            Unhappy

            Re: Subsequent litigation.

            They make far more income from accepting applications than rejection, also the idea is to not waste money checking, the people with prior art or money to prove it's not a patent anyway can easily take it to court, saving USPTO loads of expenses.

            Patents good.

            Copyright that expires in a timely fashion good.

            Software patents bad. USPTO useless. DRM Evil. DMCA evil.

            1. sbt
              Go

              Assume a spherical patent office

              I'm not convinced in this era of "software defined x" where x is anything from network switches to radios that software is exceptional and shouldn't be patentable. Patents are a useful way to incentivise invention without reliance on secrecy, including closed source in the case of software; surely a good thing. The issues with software patents seem more to do with:

              * Awarding patents for trivialities and failing to research/disclose prior art;

              * Incorporating patented IP into global standards, hampering adoption (it's tricky to require free rather than FRAND licencing if you still want inventors to contribute their latest and best ideas to standards bodies); and

              * reliance on expensive legal processes to settle disputes

              All of which defects could apply to patents in general to a greater or lesser extent.

              Would you still object to software patents if the above problems were solved?

              I agree copyright with shorter terms would be better (but for performed compositions and hybrid works - e.g audio visual media, the multiple licencing parties is too complex. Maybe a back-to-back arrangement; i.e. broadcaster pays performer, performer passes some portion of the royalty to composer.

              Misuse of the DMCA and Google's holding copyright violation detection hostage to lousy license terms is a scandal.

            2. Richard Plinston

              Re: Subsequent litigation.

              > They make far more income from accepting applications than rejection,

              Also, if an agent rejects a patent application, they have to write a report explaining why. If they accept it nothing is required.

              If an organization challenges a patent asking for a review, then they get to pay for that too.

        2. Marco van de Voort

          Re: Subsequent litigation.

          and proper scrutiny also costs money. It is the result of a small government principle.

      2. Nick Kew

        Re: Subsequent litigation.

        It's primarily an instrument of economic imperialism. Grant lots of patents, and use them to block foreign companies competing with US companies, imposing patents via WIPO and via straightforward piracy (the latter as in NTP vs RIM).

        It's not entirely coincidental that US companies were (are) way ahead of the rest of the world first in spamming patents whose 'invention' would be laughed out of court by a reasonable person, and then in making a business of using lawyers to ambush people who innovate in the real world.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "grant Patents without much checking, and rely on subsequent litigation to clarify the veracity and validity of the claim."

      This should be OK providing they are liable for all the costs of successful challenges.

  3. Brian Miller

    Gnome vs troll, Alice in courtland

    Let me see: snap a bunch of pics, sort them into a pile, fling them across a room, do it on a computer.

    Mayhaps that what has really happened at the USPTO is the all the "Reject" stamps have been stolen by the trolls. Thus, the examiners simply must pass them on. (Unless, of course, you are Gilbert Hyatt.)

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Are they sueing WhatsApp etc then?

    1. Brad Ackerman
      Terminator

      Even the dullest and laziest patent troll knows that Facebook has more money than some countries. The subject of this article, however, appears to have not known that a decent number of IBM employees are paid to contribute to GNOME.

      The black gate of Armonk may be about to open.

      1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
        Devil

        "The black gate of Armonk may be about to open."

        Yes please.

        (opens popcorn)

        1. Tom 7

          I've patented eating popcorn during interesting times. You owe me a tenner.

          1. BebopWeBop
            Trollface

            We patented patenting that idea - that will be $150 please (or your firstborn).

            1. jelabarre59

              Someone needs to patent "patent trolling".

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        The black gate of Armonk may be about to open.

        Yeah, but that's the one they boot "resourced" employees out of.

  5. earl grey
    Mushroom

    trolls

    hopefully they can sue them back under the bridge where they belong (and then flood the river).

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: trolls

      Or the sun will shine in Texas and they will turn to stone.

      1. BebopWeBop

        Re: trolls

        Texas trolls have evolved to be sunlight immune.

  6. IGotOut Silver badge

    Am I missing something in that Patent...

    Or are they just describing broadcasting in general?

  7. TrevorH

    How can they have a patent dated 2018 about this. Surely there is prior art and history showing it's already been done.

    1. Oengus

      I wonder which version of this software introduced the "infringement"... maybe the version history can demonstrate prior art as the software has been around and actively updated for years. There have only been a few updates since this patent was filed.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Prior art not that important

      What matters is whether there is an existing patent. For example you cannot patent the wheel because a patent for that was granted in 2001. Prior art may limit the amount of protection money you can extort from a patent as you can only target businesses with insufficient cash to defend themselves.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

        Re: Prior art not that important

        Prior art actually should be a reason, and is certainly a reason here in Europe. In fact, anything that is obvious to a skilled practitioner in the field should not be patentable. This is why any scientific paper produced within most collaborative consortia our university has with industry is first checked to see if there is anything which might be patentable. You must always first apply for a patent, and only then publish. A patent as broad as this, and for something which clearly seems to be prior art (I have been transmitting photos wirelessly from my camera to my phone from the moment I got a DSLR that supported it) would stand little chance under the European patent system.

        A key problem seems to be the fact that AFAIK the current funding of the USPTO is based on the number of patents awarded, not the number of applications processed. This produces a very unhealthy incentive to pass anything that seems remotely patentable, and let the lawyers sort it out later in court.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Prior art not that important

          Yeah, but in the US they have granted patents on perpetual motion machines.. so i don't think a great deal of checking goes into these.

          1. Cuddles

            Re: Prior art not that important

            "Yeah, but in the US they have granted patents on perpetual motion machines.. so i don't think a great deal of checking goes into these."

            Have you actually seen any patents granted for one? Perpetual motion machines are actually an interesting exception in US patents, because they're considered so self-evidently stupid that they're the only claim requiring an actual working model be presented before a patent is granted (mainly due to a flood of such applications at one point). No other claim has any requirement to be physically possible, let alone to provide evidence you've actually done it. There are still plenty of crackpot patent applications that are effectively claiming to produce free energy, cold fusion being a common favourite, but they're always very careful to never say anything about perpetual motion or free energy because that would guarantee they'd be immediately thrown out.

            1. Brad Ackerman
              Mushroom

              Re: Prior art not that important

              At least cold fusion could theoretically bear some vague resemblance to a method that could conceivably exist. The working-model requirement needs to be a lot broader, to encompass e.g. US6025810A, which purports to describe a superluminal communications device. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to realize that this is causality violation and therefore just as impossible as a PMM.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Prior art not that important

        Are you sure?

        https://www.epo.org/learning-events/materials/inventors-handbook/novelty.html

    3. choleric

      If the patent was only granted in 2018 then Shotwell itself is prior art.

      1. Richard Plinston

        > Shotwell itself is prior art.

        USPTO changed to a 'first to file' system which means that prior art is irrelevant.

        https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-does-the-first-to-file-rule-mean-for-my-patent-application.html

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      With Canon WFT wifi transmitters you could *select* which images to upload to a FTP server since 2008 at least. Other cameras can have had similar functions even before.

      As usual the issue is USPO.

  8. big_D Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Wirelessly?

    I've been sending images wirelessly from one device to another for nearly 20 years now, and I usually filter the images beforehand, so I claim prior art!

    1. Siberian Hamster

      Re: Wirelessly?

      Wirelessly?

      I've been sending images wirelessly from one device to another for over 20 years now, and I typically filter and crop the images beforehand, so I claim prior art to your prior art!

      1. STOP_FORTH

        Re: Wirelessly?

        Developing contact prints, selecting the non-duff ones and sticking them in a photo album involves no wires at all!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Happy

          "involves no wires at all!"

          Well, where do you attach them to dry?

          1. matt 83

            Re: "involves no wires at all!"

            On a piece of string?

            1. STOP_FORTH
              Happy

              Re: "involves no wires at all!"

              Yep, piece of string in the bathroom/darkroom. Mind you, this was a long time ago, before this patent was granted.

              I believe the Ancient Egyptions also had wireless technology, as no wires were found in any of the pyramids.

              Later on, the Danes had Bluetooth of course.

              Wisdom of the ancients, man.

  9. James Anderson

    Prior art

    They should summons Voyager 2 as a witness.

    It’s been sending selected images wirelessly for 50 years now.

    Mind you it would take 30 plus years to get to NoCal, but it would be worth it to stitch up the patent trolls with the travel expenses.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Prior art

      "Landing" Hubble on their office might also help, it would be a bit quicker than getting Voyager 2 back.

      1. jelabarre59

        Re: Prior art

        "Landing" Hubble on their office might also help,

        Ah, something like this then.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Prior art

      Voyagers have been not sending images for a long time - just some sensor data.

      But I can think about patenting a special probe for patent trolls...

  10. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    I have said it before

    and I will say it again : the only way to neuter patent trolls is to tie the amount of damages to the amount of money the patent troll is making with his patent.

    In other words : if you're just sitting on your patent and not producing anything of value with it, then you get no money for someone else actually producing goods with it (or something similar).

    That will sort the wheat from the chaff.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: I have said it before

      Or the US needs to be sensible, like Europe. They looked at software patents and decided you can't patent software, as it is already adequately covered by copyright.

      1. H in The Hague

        Re: I have said it before

        "... Europe. They looked at software patents and decided you can't patent software, as it is already adequately covered by copyright."

        Don't think that's correct. I deal with lots of software patents (usually cast in the form of 'a computer with a program to do xyz'.) Just point your browser at

        https://worldwide.espacenet.com/beta/search

        enter the name of your favourite software slinger and you'll see lots of European patents (EP).

        Example: EP0667573A1 - Incorporation of services written in one operating system environment into another operating system environment. That sounds rather softwary. (Note: does not relate to any of my clients.)

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: I have said it before

          As of 14.09.2019, António Campinos (EPO president), along with Bristows, Managing IP and others were still lobbying for software patents, in violation of EPC rules.

          http://techrights.org/2019/09/14/team-upc-boosters-and-swpats/

          His writing is hardly unbiased, but it was the first link I got when searching for Europe Software Patents.

    2. Jonathon Green
      Trollface

      Re: I have said it before

      That or sell hunting licenses. That should work pretty well in Texas...

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