Can you download it to me – in an envelope with a stamp?

I was only trying to collect a package from the counter. No, officer, I don't know why the post office is littered with broken glass. And teeth. Yes, officer, it might help if I start from the beginning. Let's have a look back on how it all started... … a look back… look back… back… [SFX: rippling video, sweeping of harp …

[cookieMonster]

Moved to France

About 15 yrs ago, and yep, that's exactly what it's like here.

There's no use fighting it (believe me I've tried).

Still, I'd never move back.

Have a beer (no wine icon).

[Warm Braw]

Re: Moved to France

It's not just France...

I lived in Belgium, admittedly a long time ago now. You needed to have an address before you could apply for a residence permit. Application meant queuing early at your local Commune as once the shutters opened they would remain open for precisely 3 hours after which they slammed shut until the next day. Once your permit was granted, some days or possibly weeks later, your permit would be posted through the door of the address given, to ensure you were living where you said. However, you couldn't get services connected to the place you were supposed to be living until you could produce a residence permit. No electricity, no gas and certainly no telephone.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Moved to France

Warm Braw,

Brussels Central commune was the most expensive in the country. 6% income tax for your local taxes. When I started the process to get my residence permit they had a window especially for foreigners - staffed by a nice lady who spoke english, dutch, french, german, spanish... They moved her to a different window soon after, and had a french-only speaker on the international one after that. Which is a bit bloody rude to the flemish speakers!

I wasn't allowed to go to the rubbish/recycling window for my rubbishy needs - I had to go to etrangers for everything - as once you've got your ID card with foreigner stamped across your face, that's your lot in life.

Oh, and be preparered to sit and wait for your dinner or even your beer. Service isn't quick - even in most of the good places. Great food and beer though, so definitely worth waiting for. I didn't mind that whole slower pace of life thing - but I did object to some of the supermarkets where I literally had to take a book to read - as the queue for the checkouts was 20 minutes. Again, partly my fault for choosing to live in the centre, rather than nearer the office.

[J.G.Harston]

Re: Moved to France

Makes you think that some of the EU countries haven't quite grasped what "EU freedom of movement" means.

[MonkeyCee]

Re: Moved to France

"Makes you think that some of the EU countries haven't quite grasped what "EU freedom of movement" means."

Makes me think you don't understand freedom of movement, or how immigration is in fact still in control of the UK.

Freedom of movement means the same rules apply to locals as to other EU citizens. In many EU countries (France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium) you have to register with your local municipality. So you can get the exact same catch-22 for a local as well as an immigrant. The UK doesn't do this for the locals, so can't do it to the EU immigrants.

For the Netherlands it goes like this:

In order to have health insurance, you have register at an address

In order to get a job, you need health insurance

In order to rent a place, you need a job

So unless you can plonk down 7 months rent (and fuck yourself out of any rent review) plus deposit, buy a house, or have a place to permanently live (ie you have to be evicted if you don't choose to leave) you're kinda fucked. If you can get a job, the company will usually sort everything for you.

[Warm Braw]

Re: Moved to France

It's not just the foreigners who suffered - I was in the queue with a hapless Belgian lady who lived in another part of the country but who was obliged to return to the commune of her birth in order to get some official document stamped.

On the other hand, you could walk into a bank lobby in the middle of the night (this was before the Internet) and make an electronic transfer using your bank card...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

This sort of thing was even happening slightly less than two thousand and nineteen years ago :-)

[A.P. Veening]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

This sort of thing was even happening slightly less than two thousand and nineteen years ago :-)

If you are referring to the events preceding the birth of that legendary Judaic terrorist/freedom fighter and name giver of a popular religion, that was a bit more than 2019 years ago as he was actually born in 4 BC.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

Pre-concieved notion?

PH because she was a virgin once & knows about stopping conception.

[Flocke Kroes]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

This has always had me a bit confused.

Joseph and Mary travel because of the census of Quirinius then Herod the Great allegedly orders mass infanticide in an effort to kill Jesus. Herod the Great died in 4BCE. Judea was then divided into four parts each with a different king. Herod Archelaus gets banished in 6AD and power in his quarter is given to Quirinius - the legate of Syria - to include that province in a census.

Was Jesus born 9 years before the census or did Herod the Great order mass infanticide nine years after his own death?

[Ken Hagan]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

The story was made up written down at least 60 years after the events it describes, in an era not noted for either mass literacy or public records. It is vanishingly unlikely that the author(s) actually had anyone to speak to who was not guessing or reporting third-hand memories.

Also, accurate sources were not a priority since it could be safely assumed the the original prophecies (that were being fulfilled) were correct. :)

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

According to numerous "Pastors" here in the USA, every single word in the Bible is the literal word of God.

Apparently, He's not that good with details, which, when you think a bit, explains quite a lot.

// KJV in the pocket...

// did you know they're free at every hotel?

[Glen 1]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

'According to numerous "Pastors" here in the USA, every single word in the Bible is the literal word of God.'

It always makes me laugh, then sigh, that people believe that.

I remember a documentary where Historians compared versions of the bible. They could date particular details/stories because *THEY WERE NOT IN THE EARLIER VERSIONS* .

*sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

did you know they're free at every hotel?

I used to have a colleague with the surname Gideon who at some part in his consulting career decided to start signing every hotel Bible he came across when travelling for work, vowing to only stop when he came across his signature again. As far as I know he's still at it :).

I've also been in two hotels of late who no longer provide a Bible by default. I found that interesting, because one was in a place where they literally have more churches than days in the year despite it's small size: Malta..

[Insert sadsack pun here]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

IIRC (no promises) you don't get a lot of Gideon's Bibles in Catholic countries because the distributing charity are a bunch of American prods.

[Unicornpiss]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

Well, the only metadata that can be checked is the percentage of Carbon-14, I suppose..

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

"Also, accurate sources were not a priority since it could be safely assumed the the original prophecies (that were being fulfilled) were correct. :)"

(yes, I do note the smiley there)

It's always easier to write down the stories and predictions after they happened. It proves the predictions were true!

[A.P. Veening]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

Quite easy, you got the wrong census.

[Flocke Kroes]

Re: Who got the wrong census?

Not just me. Luke did too.

[Keven E]

Re: Who got the wrong census?

"24 - And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons."

Pigeons had thier chance.

[Eltonga]

Re: Who got the wrong census?

Not just me. Luke did too.

He also got his right hand removed by his own father with a Jedi light saber...

Unless you are referring to another Luke...

[Glen 1]

Re: obliged to return to the commune of her birth

Splitters!

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Moved to France

And in those bank lobbies, you got a cash machine with a seat, and a full qwerty (sorry azerty) keyboard. Very good for sorting out your online bill payments.

It's only moving one letter, but it took me ages to get used to those bloody keyboards in the office. Also annoying not to have a £ symbol for dealing with the UK office, and because the Euro only took over for all transactions in 2001 our keyboards that year also didn't have the Euro symbol. I wouldn't have minded so much if I hadn't been in the bloody finance department and dealing with a budget in the UK and another in Germany...

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Moved to France

Also annoying not to have a £ symbol for dealing with the UK office, and because the Euro only took over for all transactions in 2001 our keyboards that year also didn't have the Euro symbol.

The correct way to handle that, is and has been for the last 41 years to use the standard currency codes instead of those symbols, which may be shared by multiple currencies anyway. It admittedly is a bit more typing, but it avoids the fruitless hunting for missing symbols. See also this link.

[DiViDeD]

Re: Moved to France

use the standard currency codes instead of those symbols

Shirley the correct method is to trawl through Character Map until you find the symbol you want, then copy & paste it into your document.

Or memorise the ASCII table for all the fonts you use, of course:

£ <-- that's alt+0163, that is - no pound signs on Aussie keyboards..

[Olivier2553]

Re: Moved to France

Then what do you do when you come up to a currency that does not has such symbol, or that symbol is not in the ACSII table? Standard currency code is safer and some what easier to remember (because made of the initial of the country and currency name).

[DiViDeD]

Re: what do you do when you come up to a currency that does not has such symbol

Well, if it's not in the ASCII table, I'd be hesitant to accept it. Hard cash guy, me!

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Moved to France

DiVidDeD,

That's more-or-less what I did. ALT+0128 for the € - which I just typed without having to look it up. It's also useful to be able to type E=MC² or 32°C - ALT+0178 and °=ALT+0176 respectively.

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Moved to France

Shirley the correct method is to trawl through Character Map until you find the symbol you want, then copy & paste it into your document.

Works for some currencies and symbols, but what about $? That can be AUD, CAD, HKD, MXN, NZD, SGD & USD. And I am pretty sure that list (in alphabetic order before I get complaints the USD is last) isn't anywhere near complete.

[Muscleguy]

Re: Moved to France

When we left NZ in '93 the ATM machines would let you transfer funds from say your savings account to your current account and pay your credit card bill if you had that card as well. EFTPOS was PIN mediated.

We moved to the UK and had to sign for card transactions again. The ATM's were dumb.

Oh yes, in NZ you can rock up to a fuelling station in your jalopy slap the fuel nozzle in your tank, dial up however much petrol you wanted, clip the handle in the off position and it would stop when it reached that amount. Also back in '93.

The UK was in the stone ages in these things. You still can't dial up how much fuel you want despite the pumps having keypads on them now. Why? because they must make a packet for every £40.03 charged. The tech to get rid of that has existed since the early '90s.

[Glen 1]

Re: Moved to France

The point of the nice round number is to not have a shedload of change. If you're paying by card, what does it matter?

I don't think the extra 0.075% revenue will have made much difference.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Moved to France

"The point of the nice round number is to not have a shedload of change. If you're paying by card, what does it matter?"

Not sure how common they were, but I remember putting fuel in cars 30 or so years ago here in the UK by feeding £1 and £5 notes into the pump. It might even have taken a tenner! The garages which had these pay-at-the-pump models generally only had two of them and for some reason only enabled them after they closed for the night.

[Stoneshop]

Re: Moved to France

You still can't dial up how much fuel you want despite the pumps having keypads on them now

"The fuel consumption of my car? Why would that matter, I always get ten quid worth of petrol."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Moved to France

Oh yes, in NZ you can rock up to a fuelling station in your jalopy slap the fuel nozzle in your tank, dial up however much petrol you wanted, clip the handle in the off position and it would stop when it reached that amount. Also back in '93.

Whereas here, any unmanned petrol station first slaps a €150 hold on your card before you can refuel, and that hold will persist for a good 24..48h, even after they've taken the payment for the fuel. That's how you get punished for using a debit card because you don't want to offer a credit card company the opportunity to get you in debt (especially not when some online idiot then leaks your number).

[mr_souter_Working]

Re: Moved to France

"You still can't dial up how much fuel you want despite the pumps having keypads on them now"

my local Tesco petrol station certainly does - choose an amount in either litres or pounds, and it stops when you get there.

although, I do live in a nice country (Scotland) - maybe our pumps are better than those in Englandshire.....

:P

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Moved to France

On the other hand, you could walk into a bank lobby in the middle of the night (this was before the Internet) and make an electronic transfer using your bank card...

Interesting, I'm near the border close to Maastricht, and we can use the Belgian E-ID on the municipal website to order all manner of documents without having to come in. Of course, that means then risking it to postal delivery, but that seems to have upped its game since it got competition from across the border. PostNL (Dutch) seems to be even quicker than bpost (Belgian) when it comes to parcel delivery.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Moved to France

They moved her to a different window soon after, and had a french-only speaker on the international one after that. Which is a bit bloody rude to the flemish speakers!

Not only rude, also illegal. You could do it nicely and ask for someone else, or you could go evil by recording the conversation including your attempts to get a Flemish answer and then send it to someone in "Vlaams Blok" who will happily kick an absolute stink about it (they're IMHO far too radical, but useful in situations like this).

The dual language nature of Belgium means that laws were put in place, and (if I'm not mistaken) Brussels has a dual language statute.

Not that the French have given up: the Brussels dual language examination for civil servants gives access to more pay for people who speak both national languages. However, Flemish speakers must speak perfect French to pass, whereas French speakers get away with exceptionally poor Flemish..

Anon for obvious reasons..

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Moved to France

Belgium has three official languages, there is also German in a couple of cantons (six if I remember correctly, but I am not Belgian) near the German border. And Brussels was originally a pure Flemish city and is completely surrounded by Flanders.

"Vlaanderen de leeuw".

"Wat Waals is vals is. Sla dood! Sla dood!"

[roytrubshaw]

Re: Moved to France

You need to move. :)

I lived in Woluwe St. Lambert for three years. Lovely area, lovely landlady, and only a 15 minute bus-ride on the number 20 to the office (just down the road from the Berlaymont).

The only fly in the ointment was the annual wait in line to renew your "temporary" ID and residence permit.

[MiguelC]

Re: Moved to France

Try start working in the UK.

To cash your paycheck you need a bank account. To open a bank account you need a UK address. To rent a place you need to pay a deposit. To pay the deposit you need a bank account. To open a bank account....

[Rohime]

Re: Moved to France

yeah - i tried to open a UK bank account (business - for contracting) once. Had to get a referral from an accountant first to tell them i was a good person.

[Ken Shabby]

Re: Moved to France

In Japan, I was told that as I was not a citizen I could not have a bank account, but because I was a foreigner it would have been rude to tell me that, so...

That was many, many moons ago, I suspect things have changed.

[Richard Jones 1]

Re: Moved to France

I was in Japan in 1988 ~ 1992 and had no problem at all opening a bank account or a store credit account. Because we were living in Yokohama and using the bank safe deposit box, they asked us to move our account to Yokohama and gave us a gift for agreeing. The Sanwa Bank Snoopy cards had automatic access to our safe deposit box using our bank card to enter. The box was automatically brought to the viewing room. Bank cash machines appeared to belonged to a very strong union. They were not allowed to work nights and remained shut from about 22:00 hours until maybe 06:00 in the morning.

[aks]

Re: Moved to France

While in Japan in that period I was told the cash machine hours were regulated so that the smaller banks did not have to compete with the larger ones.

[the Jim bloke]

Re: Moved to France

Had to get a referral from an accountant first to tell them i was a good person.

.. but how would an accountant know what a good person looked like ?

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: Moved to France

how would an accountant know what a good person looked like

Depends which definition of "good" you are using.. The accountant value of "good" means someone who pays them regularly regardless of anything else they do..

[low_resolution_foxxes]

Re: Moved to France

Revolut? Pretty easy to set up a bank account on there

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Moved to France

.. except when you want to use the business accounts. Now they have enough customers the charges have arrived, and they're comparable with "traditional" banks, but without the benefit of a branch network where you can pay in.

[katrinab]

Re: Moved to France

Revolut is the answer to that problem. You can open it with a non-UK address. Then get a proper bank account when everything is sorted out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Moved to France

I used to have a spectacularly good relationship with the Barclays bank next to my work some 30 years ago, which meant, of course, that that branch had to close. Now I'm back in the UK and I may have to set up a business here (waiting for this Brexit crap to finish so I can assess if that's still viable), and I must say, I have not met a more snooty, self important entitled bunch of w*nkers then what I met at Barclays HQ, and I deal with UHNW families.

So, still assessing which bank we'll use. The Highly Suspect Banking Crooks are also out so maybe we'll look for a more modern bank that doesn't try to strip you for using oxygen. Revolut Business used to be OK, but now they have enough customers they have introduced tariffs that make then pretty much as expensive as ordinary banks, but without the benefit of having a facility to pay in cash.

Sigh.