back to article Hacker cyber-gang: Give us cyber-cash for cyber-cache of 18,000 stolen Sept 11th insurance docs

The hackers who claim to have breached a British insurer last year say their cache of pilfered files include confidential documents on the September 11 terrorist attacks. The Dark Overlord group claims a collection of 18,000 files, lifted from British insurance company Hiscox, include insurance claims that Lloyd's of London* …

  1. StargateSg7

    What is this Utter Bilge of Supposed 9/11 Conspiracy Documents ??? These leaks documents PROVE NOTHING AT ALL !!!!

    The documents released by Dark Overlord have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do at all with a vaaaaaaaast Left Wing or Right Wing Conspiracy! These released/leaked documents are nothing more than details on simple 3rd Party Liability and Insurance Policy Subrogation Litigation on the World Trade Centre buildings. Basically, Lloyds of London has investors and guarantors who have UNLIMITED LIABILITY and are REQUIRED to pay out the Billion Dollar+ policy limits for the building and property damaged by the September 9/11 events in New York! These policy guarantors are called "Syndicates" because they are usually groups of individual insurance policy investors or groups of companies who have decided to spread the risk of insurance coverage amongst themselves (i.e. Re-Insurance) so that they MIGHT get income from insurance premiums OR payouts from OTHER insurers that they have bought re-insurance from (i.e. a HEDGE against any claims!)

    Of course they don't want to pay the insurance claim AT ALL, or at least, pay only the MINIMUM AMOUNT LEGALLY POSSIBLE. So how do they do that? They hire a bunch of lawyers for around 50 million US dollars and get THEM to determine if ANY other 3rd party can be found at fault via their inadequate procedures, products or services that COULD HAVE, on a legal basis, be legally determined to be a contributory factor in preventing or mitigating the events of September 11, 2001. These lawyers are PAID to find out who ELSE can be blamed (i.e. Boston Logan Airport, the airline, plane manufacturers, screeners, security firms, even door padlock makers!)

    Basically, these lawyers will find data to support their assertion about spreading the blame and LEGAL LIABILITY around so it is covered by OTHER companies and persons. The courts can then use the lawyer data to determine the percentage amounts of 3rd Party Liability Insurance Subrogation and any Re-Insurance options and issues. By spending 50 million US, Lloyds MAY be able to assign blame and insurance coverage to another party and AVOID having to pay ALL or SOME of the Billion Dollars it's Policy Guarantors would be legally obligated to pay the Claimant!

    Insurance Policy Subrogation and 3rd Party Liability --- THAT'S IT! That's ALL these documents are about! Some lawyers are being PAID to find proof of procedural and/or product/service inadequacy so that they can convince a judge to assign insurance liability to SOME OTHER COMPANY OR ENTITY other than Lloyds of London and its Syndicate investors and Policy Guarantors! It's a Mere Typical Day in the Life of a higher level Insurance Claims Lawyer!

    There IS NO CONSPIRACY HERE !!! The word "Syndicates" is a legal term for Lloyds of London Insurance Policy Investors and Guarantors and DOES NOT REFER to some secret MAFIA or government agency who supposedly caused 9/11. What CAUSED 9/11 is the AIRLINE THEMSELVES, who after all the aircraft hijaakings in the 1970's and 1980's, SHOULD HAVE LEGALLY FORESEEN that an aircraft cockpit could be violently entered or invaded by nefarious persons! Ergo, they SHOULD HAVE HAD BY THE YEAR 2000 PROPER LOCKS installed on the Cockpit Cabin doors, built-in wide field of view video monitors AND have the doors themselves fully strengthened against violent intrusion!

    It wasn't the AIRPORT'S fault! Americans LIKE freedom of movement! WHY should they be unnecessarily inconvenienced by excessive and intrusive screening when it's the AIRLINE's JOB and the AIRPLANE MANUFACTURER'S JOB to first make a lockable aircraft door that's opens ONLY from the inside AND has a video screen monitoring ability AND THEN have the Airline company employees (i.e. the Pilots!) have it as PART OF THEIR JOB to actually LOCK the damn doors!

    When you drive in a bad part of town, don't you at least LOCK your car doors? And Don't you EXPECT that those car doors WOULD be lockable?

    Same thing with these documents...THEY are working papers indicating the procedures and details that will HELP assign blame to legally responsible parties so that Lloyds Insurance does NOT have to pay the full insurance policy amount all by itself!


    Soooo....these leaked files are total B.S. !!! It's all about Insurance Subrogation (look it up!) and assigning 3rd Party Liability!

    AND....I can tell Dark Overlord has NO IDEA AT ALL about the legal system in the USA because he/they DO NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND what these documents are talking about AT ALL !!!


    So.....WHERE ARE the UFO documents! And don't show me 20 to 30 year old images of "The Green Lady" or SR-75 Two-Stage-to-Orbit Spaceplane System -- I already have those! And anyways, that tech is OLD SCHOOL BORING! Show me some PROOF of Electro-Magneto-Hydrodynamic Field Effects Engines that Warp Space and Time.

    AND...when you have some secret documents regarding the 250+ Billion Strong Verdant Alien species trying to take over this part of the galaxy AND/OR have more information about the 3D-XYZ Space Coordinates of the nearest visually-stealthed Dyson Spheres THEN CALL ME! Otherwise, this release is nothing but a truck load of Horse Hockey Pucks! (aka Manure!)

    What are you? 19 years old still living in Momma's Basement? Give us the good stuff and not this boring insurance litigation scheisse! Capiche?

    1. vir

      But how do you really feel?

      1. StargateSg7

        When I have a large shot or two of that ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL Made-in-Germany Asbach Uralt Brandy, ONLY THEN will I feel much better at the start of this year 2019. Being only a few days old, it's ALREADY been crazy! Not to mention me being ALREADY highly exasperated by all the flakes, weirdos, plain old crazies and simple nutcases that pass for the overly-somnolent, dystopia-loving, wretched examples of porcine fecal matter we call educated people these days!

        So how do I feel? I feel that maybe that one should look thyself in thy navel so as to figure out how many inches (or cm!) one must dig to remove all the decades-old lint thou hast collecteth in this ignomious example of an ill-mastered life! I suggest you drink ten straight shots of Jamaican Rum and Call it a Day after you send me a cheque for 999,999 Euros so that I may waste it in its entirety on all that possibly illegal, likely immoral AND the most definitely and lusciously fattening !!!

        1. MyffyW Silver badge

          @StargateSg7 you are a wonderfully bonkers human being.

        2. TimMaher Silver badge

          Asbach Uralt

          That takes me back.

          Not had any of that in, oh, decades.

          Quite good as I remember.

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Good Stuff and Great Shit ..... for Holy Grail Narrative Territories in Virgin Spaces

      Your country needs you, StargateSg7, as does the likes of an Integrity Initiative as a useful tool in a world of both ignorant and arrogant fools/stupid users and serial abusers.

      Bravo, Sir/Madam. ..... but the truth will be outed no matter what and IT will set all free. Such is surely what the future is all about nowadays, and certainly considerably more so than was ever the case before in the simple not interconnected and non-internetworking jointed application of follies in the past.

    3. phuzz Silver badge

      Or to put it more succinctly (and with less CAPITAL LETTER SHOUTING):

      You know how hard it is to get your insurance company to pay out for a small dent/fire/theft? Well imagine how hard it is to get an insurance company to pay out for two massive sky-scrapers.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So you're saying that lawyers are conspiring to get out of paying out by trying to blame people other than the terrorist that knowingly forced the planes to crash. And that the Darf Loverords are conspiring to get money for something they stole and don't understand. I bet some of the little companies that are being pinned by the dirty lawyers would like to have that data, so they can prep a defense or run out of the country - since their legal battle is likely to financially crush them - guilty or not.

      Conspiring = Conspiracy, it happened, you just didn't like that it wasn't ALIANs.

  2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Conspiracy Idiocy

    The conspiracy idiocies generally fall apart when one takes into account the design considerations and the material properties of unprotected steel structural members in extreme heat. While plane strikes into tall buildings do occasionally happen the Twin Towers were not designed to handle a deliberate strike by fully loaded large jets hitting at full throttle. Also, the impact blew off the insulation on many of the steel structural members that were not damaged or destroyed initially. If one heats steel at a high enough temperature (well below melting) and long enough it loses strength. Lose enough strength in enough structural members and collapse is the result. What one should appreciate is how well designed and built the Twin Towers were as they stood long enough that the vast majority of the deaths there were from the unfortunates trapped above the damaged areas and the firefighters trying to reach them.

    Post collapse they would inevitably insurance claims and lawsuits over the scope and size of those claims, nothing really unexpected or earth shattering. Insurance companies do not like to payout on policies unless they have to and would like to try to minimize the amount they payout. In feraldom we are treated to ads by ambulance chasers pointing out (correctly) that to get what one is due from an insurance claim one needs to retain an ambulance chaser. A small scale example that happens everyday. Other than scale, this is nothing unusual, insurance company is trying minimize its payout.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Conspiracy Idiocy

      *cough* Building 7 *cough*

      1. BigSLitleP

        Re: Conspiracy Idiocy

        Really? Even building 7 has been fully explained a billion times. Grow up, man.

        1. RobertLongshaft

          Re: Conspiracy Idiocy


          Fully explained?


        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Conspiracy Idiocy

          Provide ONE source that explains #7 Just 1.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: "the Twin Towers were not designed to handle a deliberate strike..."

      IIRC, they actually were designed to withstand being hit by a Boeing 707, but I'm pretty sure they didn't plan on a fully-fueled one.

      In any case, they never could have planned what happened, and the fuel load was most certainly way beyond what anyone could have foreseen at the time.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: "the Twin Towers were not designed to handle a deliberate strike..."

        "IIRC, they actually were designed to withstand being hit by a Boeing 707, but I'm pretty sure they didn't plan on a fully-fueled one."

        Seems like a safe bet. Another safe bet is that they weren't designed to withstand being hit by a Boeing 767 (a tad larger with a bit more fuel), which was exactly what happened.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Conspiracy Idiocy

      "the Twin Towers were not designed to handle a deliberate strike by fully loaded large jets hitting at full throttle."

      As a matter of fact they were.


      Look it up.

  3. StargateSg7

    AND NOW this ....Stooopid... Dark Overlord has released ANOTHER set of USELESS files:

    Checkpoint-2 is MORE useless crap about Insurance Subrogation litigation and high-priced lawyers placing blame on other barely-involved entities! All that is disclosed here are a bunch of security procedures that could OR SHOULD HAVE been followed such as enhanced security screening, extra aircraft security, and fancy building and property safety/security plus special federal disaster and policing response in times of crisis.

    There IS NOTHING CONSPIRATORIAL HERE at all other than a bunch of middle managers and executives trying to cover their derrieres as to what response protocols coulda, woulda and shoulda been available and/or implemented on, before and after September 11, 2001!

    This is Completely BOOOORING crappola !!!


    Don't give us more of this UTTER BILGE of 9/11 documents that I can get from public court records or by otherwise paying to stuff some mildly expensive alcohol and steak down some executive's bulging gullet! GIVE US THE REAL DEAL on Warp-capable UFO Engines! How about Bob Lazar Photos in his Labs (I Got Those!) and Edgar or J-Rod The Alien chained to a chair 29 stories below the surface of Area 51? How about Plasmadynamically Efficient Containment Vessel plans for a Portable Cold or Hot Fusion reactor? How about that fancy backpack lightning bolt machine tested on some Oregon beach at 4:00 am in the 1980's!? Do some digging dirt on that lunkhead who used one of the FIRST Quantum Entanglement Modems to delete portions of imagery that had PROOF of alien dwellings and hardware on Mars? Where's the current locations of the secret USAF Space Stations and the USN's Gargantuan-sized Flying Propane Tanks? Where is the 360 page report on the 250 Billion+ strong Verdant species who want to take over Earth through vicarious if not nefarious low-key and SEVERELY HIDDEN MEANS? Who was the cameraman filming President Harry Truman with that custom 22mm film camera taken of Truman surveying a bunch of alien beings lain dead on some airfield warehouse taxiway? And damnit! WHERE ARE THE NEAREST Dyson Spheres and HOW can I get to them to partake in all things intergalactically insidious and ignoble?


    Give us what we REALLY WANT !


    P.S. actually the World Trade Centre towers were SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to take a full-on, full speed 600 KMH plus hit from a Boeing 707 jetliner! I was actually SURPRISED they stayed upright as long as they did! THAT shows just how GOOD the original design and engineering actually WERE on those towers! What they COULD NOT TAKE though is a full on heat from the much heavier and higher inertia-level of a B767! And TRUE the fireproofing insulation unfortunately was NOT up to par and did simply blow off contributing to the eventual pancake collapse!


    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      P.S. actually the World Trade Centre towers were SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to take a full-on, full speed 600 KMH plus hit from a Boeing 707 jetliner! I was actually SURPRISED they stayed upright as long as they did! THAT shows just how GOOD the original design and engineering actually WERE on those towers! What they COULD NOT TAKE though is a full on heat from the much heavier and higher inertia-level of a B767! And TRUE the fireproofing insulation unfortunately was NOT up to par and did simply blow off contributing to the eventual pancake collapse!

      They weren't designed to withstand that kind of impact - rather the lead structural engineer ran some calculations against the final design to see how well it would stand up to an accidental hit by a B707 taking off or landing at a nearby airport. The mass is neither here nor there (the B707 and B767 being pretty similar), but the 9/11 impacts were at much higher speed, and the calculations were only looking at impact forces and not the effects of heat on the structure. So yes the structure actually did a surprisingly good job, but those inaccuracies in your version just pander to the conspiracy theorists desperate to prove that the towers should have survived.

      1. StargateSg7

        I should have noted that YES the engineers DID do the calculations of a fully loaded 707 but since this was the Early 1970's during the design phase, it's engineering was GOOD for that time period! Again, I APPLAUD the original designers and engineers on JUST HOW WELL they stood up to a faster and heavier Boeing 767 when by all accounts the whole top could have been sheered off or the entire building TOPPLED OVER in a cheaper or less-well-built building!

        There is NO conspiracy here! Pancaking WILL occur doing any building collapses due to the type of outer-shell cross-member-style construction used in the World Trade Centre towers. The designers WANTED to maximize space so they use the outer shell cross-beam design. Again, the building stayed up amazing well AND for a long time so that the death toll was kept to around 3500 rather than 75,000 people!


        The BIG CONSPIRACY HERE is that the MAJORITY of the hijackers were FROM SAUDI ARABIA who were educated in Madrassas (i.e. religious schools) financed by wealthy SAUDI ARABIAN patrons, Saudi government agencies AND even Saudi Royals!

        In fact, the WRONG COUNTRY WAS INVADED !!! It SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAUDI ARABIA who was invaded by U.S. Forces instead or Afghanistan and then Iraq. It SHOULD HAVE BEEN THOSE SAUDI ARABIAN financiers, government agencies and royal family enablers who did and still do espouse radical religious views and extremism who SHOULD BE BROUGHT to AMERICAN JUSTICE for LONG PRISON TERMS if not actual capital punishment sentences !!!


        OK U.S. Lawyers! You KNOW who the REAL enablers START LITIGATING and START those discoveries and depositions on WHO FINANCED the Madrassas that radicalized the 9/11 hijackers! They NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR CRIMES IN THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM !!!!!

  4. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Ok .... Move On, Please. Nothing to See There.

    What news of the missile that hit the Pentagon and why, whenever one might reasonably expect it to be surrounded by cameras, is there just the one unsatisfactorily convincing video released?

    Pentagon 9/11 Plane Crash Video 1

    And as is the case here too, the comments shared on the story and video are an entertaining read.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: Ok .... Move On, Please. Nothing to See There.

      The Pentagon was self-insured. Or insured by different parties. So not covered by this hack. An interesting part of the Pentagon truthers is most don't seem to realise just how frickin huge that building is. But then perspective has always been an issue with truthers.

      Otherwise, this just seems to be a peek behind the curtains of the insurance industry. I doubt I'll read any of it, but perhaps it'll be of interest to researchers given the impact 9/11 had.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ok .... Move On, Please. Nothing to See There.

      Don't know about any missile, but my father took a photo of the plane that hit the Pentagon ( before it hit, obvs ).

      1. StargateSg7

        Re: Ok .... Move On, Please. Nothing to See There.

        One OTHER thing that people forget as to WHY very few videos/photos are there of the Pentagon plane, is that the 500+ KMH speed of the incoming place is FASTER than the capture speed of normal video cameras (30 fps) and common security cameras (4 to 10 frames per second) So ONLY ONE security camera was able to capture a few frames of the actual aircraft coming over the parking lot of the Pentagon!

        It was NOT a missile! It DEFINITELY was a large airliner hitting the Pentagon! There IS video and eyewitness proof of that!


        And AGAIN, this stooopid Dark Overload man-child, has NO CLUE about insurance law and the issues regarding policy subrogation AND assignment of 3rd Party Liability AND the required amounts of discoveries, interrogatories, depositions, document search and production, lay-witness and expert witness testimony and reports from same, and twenty other factors that come into play when a large insurance claim is made and the claimants and payees are at odds of WHO IS GOING TO PAY! It is a WASTE of time to show these documents since they actually SUPPORT the conclusion that no government agency or shadow-entity-led conspiracy has actually occurred.

        The ONLY THING that has occurred is that $50 Million+ U.S. (40 Million Euros+) has been spent AT THE VERY LEAST in order to find out that, in my opinion, the airline companies (i.e. AA) themselves and the manufacturers (Boeing and others) SHOULD HAVE FORESEEN from the numerous hijack events of the 1970's and 1980's that STRENGTHENED and LOCKABLE DOORS should have already been installed on the airplanes AND that the Airlines SHOULD have put in hidden Wide Field of View cameras and cockpit monitors for pilots to see the rest of the cabin AND that written and trained-for procedures SHOULD HAVE been put in place for the continuous locking of cockpit cabin doors AND the IMMEDIATE LANDING of the aircraft during a hostage situation!

        I am betting that the Lloyds Syndicates who provide the capital to pay out the Billion Dollar+ insurance claim on the World Trade Centre towers will be able to recover about $250 million to maybe $500 million U.S. from the airlines AND the airplane manufacturers themselves, because I DO SEE some culpability here in terms of the lack of aircraft cockpit security procedures plus the lack of installation of strengthened and secured cockpit doors that SHOULD HAVE been put in place waaaay before September 11, 2001!


        Sooooo, anyways....since Dark Overlord has ALSO seen fit to brag he has evidence of Aliens and UFO's, then PLEASE DO SHOW US THAT DATA and STOP feeding us more BORING insurance litigation documents that show ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ANYTHING when it comes to a Vaaaast Government Conspiracy!

        Again, Where's The Beef?



  5. macjules Silver badge

    And the Tin Foil Hat award goes to ..

    The Dark Overlord group, for hacking above and beyond the call of duty .. even if it was way past their bedtime,

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Splainin away conspiracy theories. These crisis commentards come out the woodwork as soon as something like this happens. We all know who's behind it

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Mighty Rights of the Virtual Jungle where Simply Complex Mice Roar and Terrifying Lions Tremble

      Splainin away conspiracy theories. These crisis commentards come out the woodwork as soon as something like this happens. We all know who's behind it .... Anonymous Coward

      Go on then, AC, don't stop there. Pray tell and disprove the ignorance that abounds in all who think they know who's behind such things.

      Throw the rabid dogs of war a juicy bone to whet their appetite for a fabulous fabless feast of sweet vengeance and common law justice.

      Wannabe a star? It's that easy.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well done, immoral fools.

    "If you're a terrorist organisation such as ISIS/ISIL, Al-Qaeda, or a competing nation state of the USA such as China or Russia, you're welcome to purchase our trove of documents."

    Well done painting a fat legal target on your back. It is now irrelevant if the data contains anything interesting, the expressed willingness to deal with terrorists illustrates nicely the sturdy moral fibre at work here. If they find these people, law enforcement can now use anti terror laws to ensure a nice long stay in the less classier prisons.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At some point, it all becomes rather tedious

    Oh look, nothing interesting on TV and Trump is (for once) quiet, let's publish some conspiracy theories that we had on the shelf and fill in that gap in what is laughingly referred to as "news" these days and see what happens - and presto, the whole show lights up again.


    Wake me when something new happens. I'm suffering from outrage fatigue - outrage of others, to be clear. Outragists (as termed by Scott Adams) are IMHO people with a very boring life.

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