back to article Samsung demands Apple's iOS 6 source code in patent case

In the latest chapter in the ongoing global patent litigation between Apple and Samsung, the South Korean company has asked a local court to grant it access to the source code to iOS 6, claiming that only the code will tell whether Apple infringed its patents. According to a report in The Korea Times on Friday, Apple's legal …

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  1. LarsG
    Meh

    Saucy

    You might as well hand them over the keys to your house and let them sleep with your mother, girlfriend, sister and wife.

    I think not.

    1. Blank Reg Silver badge

      Re: Saucy

      Samsung doesn't actually get to see any of the source code. The way these things usually work is that a neutral 3rd party will be tasked with determining if the code violates the patent, after all the suitable NDA are signed of course. And normally the code is stored on a physically secure machine that is not connected to any network to prevent any hack attempts.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Saucy

        Wouldn't it be funny if the neutral third party chosen by the court was Microsoft.

        1. Fatman
          Pint

          Re: ...the neutral third party chosen by the court was Microsoft.

          DAMN YOU AC!!!!

          A mouthful of a soft drink spewed all over a keyboard, NO THANKS TO YOU!

          Another keyboard ruined. Now where do I send that bill!!!!????

          </sarcasm>

          <------- No soda icon, so this one will have to do.

          1. Chika
            Coffee/keyboard

            Re: ...the neutral third party chosen by the court was Microsoft.

            Actually, there's never been a soda icon, but there IS a "you owe me a keyboard" icon... :)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Saucy

          Why? Apple have Microsoft may be rivals but they have agreements on patents and it is in Microsoft's interests to keep Apple afloat. They did so in the 1990s to avert another anti-trust investigation.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Saucy

        Not an Android machine then...

      3. Wize

        Re: Saucy

        "Samsung doesn't actually get to see any of the source code."

        I don't think they would want to either as there would be all sorts of cross claims that you are copying the code you've seen when you release your next product.

    2. Adam 1

      Re: Saucy

      When I first heard it I too thought it was a ridiculous request.

      Then I remembered that this is a request to the same folk who think rounded corners are an invention and slowly came to realise that using logic is not a good predictor of the outcome of such cases.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Saucy

        I would consider this appropriate in copyright infringement cases, but in this case it's about patents. If it is not clear by looking at the device black-box wise whether a patent is even being infringed, said patent paper should be used as canine fecal removement tool and the USPTO doofus who granted it should be GITMOed for aggravated asshattery.

        1. Hungry Sean
          FAIL

          Re: Saucy

          Destroy All Monsters, your test for worthiness of a patent would eliminate a shit ton of hard work from patent protection while maintaining it for land-grabs and rounded corners.

          How about methods of write levelling on SSDs, object tracking, recovering signal loss due to multipathing in radio communication? I could go on and on. With a black-box approach you can tell someone else's product is doing a good job or not, or even if it is attaining similar performance to your method, but you can't tell if they are infringing your clever method of doing it.

          If you don't reject the patent system entirely, then this sort of discovery is a necessary consequence.

        2. hold2ransom

          Re: Saucy

          Software patents ring a bell!!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Pint

        Re: Saucy

        That was good! Thumbs up!

    3. Andrew Moore
      Pint

      Re: Saucy

      Remember who is asking for this (and making lots of money)- It's lawyers versus lawyers. Both sides employ them so they might as well get some use out of them. And I'm sure both sides have some form of war chest to cover the costs of the 40 ongoing cases, and it's a fraction of their profit.

    4. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Perfect Digital Storming Weather Ahead ..... Highly Frequent Squalls and Squirmishes Expected

      You might as well hand them over the keys to your house and let them sleep with your mother, girlfriend, sister and wife.

      I think not........ LarsG Posted Friday 25th January 2013 21:00 GMT

      Notwithstanding what you may think, LarsG, do you think the request, which apparently is not unprecedented, and may even be quite usual in such cases, has spooked some insider trading and parasitic profit making?...... Apple's Flash Dump In The Last Second Of Trading Caught On Tape

      Or is there another good reason for that ........

      Ok .... who's realising that Blackberry 10 [launch date Jan 30th] is the new superkid on the block? And what would constitute and precipitate a flash crash?
      .... on a rigged and rigging market platform with dodgy HFT algorithms which are vulnerable to ...... well, let us just say more expert chaos source manipulation.

      Welcome to the Greater Great IntelAIgent Game and Devilishly Heavenly ARG MetaPhorical Play ..... Virtual ShowTime.

  2. Herby

    Seems to be a case of:

    You show me yours, and I'll show you mine.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Last man standing...

    I still say the way to settle this is a via Celebrity Death Match with the heads of both firms in the ring.

  4. g.marconi

    Clearly ridiculous to allow Apple cases to be tried by an American court.....should be in a neutral country such as Saudi Arabia.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      DUH! this is about patents registered in the USA!

      You have to register copyright, trademarks and patents in each country you want them active in.

      1. Tom Maddox Silver badge
        Trollface

        Hey, now, don't let logic, reason, and law get in the way of a perfectly good American Hate thread.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Maddox.

          the reason why you see these sort of posts in patent discussion forums, is the same reason why you see anti-Saudi Arabian posts in human rights forums.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "DUH! this is about patents registered in the USA!"

        DUH! did you read the article? It clearly states "the South Korean company has asked a local court to grant it access to the source code to iOS 6". Local to South Korea is not the USA. If that's not enough for you, click the report which tells you specifically which South Korean court it is.

      3. Tim Bates

        "Re: Registering copyright

        Only stupid, backwards countries require people to register copyright.

        In sane countries, copyright applies the instant someone creates content.

    2. Fatman

      Saudi Arabia?

      OK g.marconi, if you want to apply Sharia law to the "conflict" between Apple and Samsung; one way to make it more interesting would be to apply Sharia punishment also.

      Now, what is the the Sharia punishment for "theft"??

      Perhaps it can be applied to the CEOs of both companies, starting with the CEO of Apple.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why...

    can't we all just get along?

    1. JohnG Silver badge

      Re: Why...

      "Why can't we all just get along?"

      Because all the lawyers would starve - and the lawyers won't let that happen.

      1. Chika
        FAIL

        Re: Why...

        "Because all the lawyers would starve - and the lawyers won't let that happen."

        Damn! I knew there was a flaw in the plan somewhere!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Samsung just has to wait until Apples stock price depresses further, then they can buy Apple for a song.

    AAPL is down 34.5% from the high point in September.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Samsung's big success in the mobile market will be killed off by Google's nexus.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Samsung's big success in the mobile market will be killed off by Google's nexus."

        That requires... stock.

        (Annoyed Android Dev needing a new dev phone)

        1. cantankerousblogger
          Facepalm

          And physical buttons

          Nexus 4 is all very nice but I've lost track of the number of calls I've missed while trying to take off my gloves to answer the bloody phone. Soft buttons might be great for the Beach Boys but here in northern Europe it gets a bit chilly and I really miss that magic green physical button. It is not like the space is used for any other function either...

          1. Turtle_Fan

            Re: And physical buttons

            While I appreciate your frustration, which I shared till recently I must inform you that there are gloves out there (both thermal and work) that have a small patch of conducting material on the thumb and index finger ends.

            Of course it's a pain and an unnecessary cost but when you next go for a pair of gloves keep it in mind.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Think that might be a while - they are still vying for number 1 or number 2 with Exxon.

    3. Fatman

      RE: .... they can buy Apple for a song

      Now, you are wandering into a real "dirty tricks" scenario there!!!!

      Imagine, for a moment, Sammy using some proxies to slowly buy up Apple stock while it sits in the tank. Then when sufficient stock is held by the proxies, stage a takeover. First act of the new "owner" - boot Apple's C level suite right out the door.

      Karma - best served without any warning.

  7. Lloyd Kinsella
    Stop

    Think of the children!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Give it 3-4 years and Samsung will be back making pretty average fridges and microwaves.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      and Apple will be suing them, claiming that they invented the fridge and microwave.

      1. bolccg
        Mushroom

        You obviously lack ambition

        "and Apple will be suing them, claiming that they invented the fridge and microwave."

        Actually Apple invented cold. Um, and hot. So I guess until Apple came along everything was, like, the same temperature? Uh, yeah, sounds right*.

        * You may believe that ranges of temperature existed before Apple invented them, indeed you may even have seen science fiction movies that predicted the basics of things not all being the same temperature many years ago. Perhaps, at your most erroneous, you may believe that you yourself owned thermometers that indicate that others had considered the concept of temperature ranges to not only exist but in fact be blindingly obvious, years before Apple's invention. However, I spoke to twelve people in East Texas on the subject (one of whom was an "inventor" himself) and they tell me that you're wrong.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Actually Apple invented cold. Um, and hot.

          And Apple looked, and saw that is was good.

      2. Adam 1

        of course Apple invented the fridge

        Rectangle, check

        Rounded corners, check

        Cool, check

        Patent infringed.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: of course Apple invented the fridge

          Does any here know of a browser plugin that renders invisible any comment that contains the phrase 'rounded rectangle'?

          Of course; those of you who use such a plug-in won't be able to read this comment. Damn!

          1. nuked
            FAIL

            Re: of course Apple invented the fridge

            And you need a plug-in to achieve this outcome?

    2. FlossyThePig

      Average?

      what's wrong with average?

      By "pretty average" do you mean below average?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And Apple?

      Back making minority-market, over-priced PCs?

    4. Jonathon Green
      Thumb Down

      "Give it 3-4 years and Samsung will be back making pretty average fridges and microwaves."

      ...along with the oil tankers, power stations, hospitals, heavy construction equipment, insurance, theme parks, department stores, and jet engines. Seriously, mobile hadsets are just one part of an electronics division which is one small part of a highly diversified industrial behemoth...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

      I suspect they'll be around considerably longer than Apple.

      1. asdf
        Trollface

        >Give it 3-4 years and Samsung will be back making pretty average fridges and microwaves.

        Better than making subpar ones and charging premium prices for them ala Sony's electronics these days.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Karma's a bitch

    Apple have been free to rip-off Android for years, because of it's opensource nature. (Notifications anyone??) Now the tide has turned, it's payback time...

    Oh dear. I'm sure all will turn out fine, as it's quite clear Apple have plenty of US officials in it's pockets thou..

    1. Steve Knox
      Headmaster

      Re: Karma's a bitch

      Thou what?

      Incidentally, dost thou have a standard QWERTY keyboard layout?

      If thou hath such, please find the L key on thy keyboard.

      Now, move two keys to thy right.

      Now, rip that key off of thy keyboard and cast it from thine presence.

      1. Fatman

        Re: Karma's a bitch

        You have me with:

        If thou hath such, please find the L key on thy keyboard.

        Now, move two keys to thy right.

        Now, rip that key off of thy keyboard and cast it from thine presence.

        On my QWERTY keyboard, the key 2 keys to the right of the L key is the ' / " key. Now, why would I want to get rid of it??? It comes in handy when I create BASH scripts.

      2. JohnG Silver badge

        Re: Karma's a bitch

        "Thou what?"

        How about: Thou shalt finish words and sentences and not just tail off in the middle.

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