back to article Microsoft says Google trying to undermine Windows Phone

Microsoft has admitted that Windows Phone 8 doesn't work as well with some of the internet's most popular properties as do other smartphone platforms, but it has pinned the blame on a surprising culprit: apparently, it's all Google's fault. In a blog post on Wednesday, Microsoft VP and deputy general counsel Dave Heiner said …

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  1. IanW

    Ironic!

    This is Microsoft complaining, right? I think there's a proverb about sauce for the goose. Or is it stones and glass houses?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Re: Ironic!

      Indeed, something to do with being in a glass house. Perhaps they should install fewer Windows?

      1. Mikel
        Windows

        Re: Ironic!

        The Modern look is only one window now.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ironic!

      No, it is the proverb about the kettle. That is what happens when it meets the "do no evil" pot.

      1. Dazed and Confused

        Re: Ironic!

        > That is what happens when it meets the "do no evil" pot.

        So what is evil about trying to put M$ out of our misery?

      2. VinceH

        Re: Ironic!

        So it's a case of what's good for goose throwing stones at the kettle. Gotcha.

        1. BorkedAgain
          Facepalm

          Re: Ironic!

          No, geese in glass kettles shouldn't throw sauce. Pay attention.

          1. Darryl

            Re: Ironic!

            Kettles who live in glass geese shouldn't count their chickens before the horse

    3. Steve Crook
      Happy

      Re: Ironic!

      Awwww evil old Google beating up on poor wittle Micwosoft. There there poor baby, console yourself with the thought that you're a big fat corprate bastard that's been kicking sand in the faces of smaller guys for years so it's about time you got yours. I'm old enough to remember FUD and Astro Turf. Stop whining and innovate!!!!

      1. AlbertH
        Linux

        Re: Ironic!

        They can't. MS have lost all their creative staff and effective engineers (the dross remains as usual). Even MS haven't got enough money to fix their appalling range of offerings - they've entirely lost their way. Windows 8 tries to turn the desktop into a sub-standard touchscreen phone, Windows for phones doesn't work properly (it's even worse than Blackberry!), Windows 7 is incompatible with most business software, and all of them have stupidly high hardware requirements (ever tried "running" Windoze 7 on an Atom-based netbook?).

        Apple aren't much better. Their desktop OS is now aging (the latest version is just a set of patches on top of a seven-year-old OS), and business can't justify the need for the higher hardware prices. iOS is a poor joke. Everything that was good about earlier versions is largely broken, and they just can't compete with the ability of Android to run on virtually any hardware....

        Android is now the "acceptable face of Linux" and is stealing a march on everything else. Chrome looks great, and is easy to use - the Samsung Chromebook is fabulous (and insanely cheap). The latest Nexus phone will outsell everything else on the market over the next few months.

        Google aren'y being nasty to MS and Apple - it's just that they've lost the plot completely, and neither can compete with Google's pricing policy! Android, Chrome and Linux are all free (in every sense), and their inexorable march towards supremacy in all markets will be fascinating to see!

        1. Inertia

          Re: Ironic!

          "Free in every sense"

          bwahaha good one. Thanks. Yes I love my free Nexus phone and the free and professional support I offer my linux users. They love free support too. Much better than the paid support they used to have to pay for when they were using MS software. Lovely.

        2. messele
          Facepalm

          Re: Ironic!

          "Apple aren't much better. Their desktop OS is now aging (the latest version is just a set of patches on top of a seven-year-old OS)"

          Irony++

          This desktop OS has underpinnings dating back over 40 years, how on earth can steady, methodical improvements be labelled in this way? Because you think everything is like Windows?

          You should know all about systems based on Unix, you base your life on a Penguin-flavoured free-ripoff version of it after all and nobody is complaining that is "just a set of patches". You have no respect for the amount of work put into these things clearly.

          Idiot.

    4. LarsG
      Meh

      Re: Ironic,no it's calculated..

      Will it bring the watchdogs to scrutinise Googles practices a little more?

      It's more a more subbtle way of getting what you want rather than Microsoft going through the courts, let the Competitions Commisions foot the bill.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re: Ironic!

      Indeed.

      Reminds me of when they intentionally delivered borked content to Opera Browser...

      http://slashdot.org/story/03/02/14/1256231/opera-releases-bork-edition

      I have a suspicion that the underlying problem is Microsoft's insistance of pushing the closed H.264 video standard. If they supported open VP8/HTML5 video, i'm guessing there wouldn't be a problem with the YouTube app.

      Either way, the lack of a decent YouTube app on Windows Phone is the very least of users problems, the whole OS is shite, not just a single app.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ironic!

        @Barry - Did you even read the article? They clearly said that the problem was nothing to do with video, but the metadata related services, such as ratings, categories etc.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Ironic!

          "@Barry - Did you even read the article? They clearly said that the problem was nothing to do with video, but the metadata related services, such as ratings, categories etc."

          The coward is right! Too many retards hit submit without thought or consideration for whey they rant about. Hardly surprising in here tho is it?

      2. Daniel Warner

        The whole os?

        The whole windows phone os is rubbish eh? Have you ever actually used it? And I don't mean reading a review from some Apple ir Google biased reviewer. Or fiddling with it in a shop.

        Yes, it has faults but so do all the others. I just think people are now too quick to dismiss it.

        We need more competition in the market..

        1. David Simpson 1
          FAIL

          Re: The whole os?

          So feel free to use a sub-standard mobile platform if you think that brings competition to a market that is spilt quite well between two tech giants, bring a 3rd party to the table that locked down the previous desktop market so it contained only themselves. Something they were fined for doing multiple times, why on earth would anyone want Microsoft back in the mix again ?

          1. Snake Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: The whole os?

            You are correct - feel free to use the substandard Android, by not acknowledging or complaining about its many failings, and believe that you are bringing competition to a market.

            Android's email, battery power handling, calendar system and People contact handling UI are massive steps backward from both BlackBerry and Windows Mobile 6.1 / 6.5, but you blindly believe otherwise. But you'e bought into the hype, haven't you?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The whole os?

          "I just think people are now too quick to dismiss it."

          BANG ON! Especially the retards in here. One minded one track ponies with pointless comments.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. eulampios
            Megaphone

            the obviousness of youtube

            That's pretty obvious, obviously The retards seem nowadays to concentrate primarily in the vicinity of your beloved Redmond City. Because, it's not that hard to write an app for youtube. The one Android devices use had an Apache license, so were MS not that retarded, they'd be able to figure it out. There is a python project called youtube-dl (GPL'ed), MS could use to parse youtube urls to their own liking and fire up some nice video player to watch the movies. Do MS have a decent videoplayer? I doubt it, in that case they can use a free player, they are aplenty. The code of mplayer or vlc, these are GPL'ed. So MS should use some caution here.

            Of course, MS might be able to do all that, they just need to cry out loud like a bunch of professional weepers. I'll try to smother this hysteria with a little reminder that MS had been failing to deliver any of their products to GNU/Linux and *BSD platforms (not that most bother, but still...). So they better shut their baby-crying mouth up.

        3. bailey86

          Re: The whole os?

          There may be issues. I've heard from a senior mobile phone company guy that Windows Phones are being returned en masse and it's to do with the phones slowing down and not working properly. Currently they try to mitigate issues by recommending removing the last added apps.

          I haven't seen anything on the web about this yet - maybe the Reg wants to look into it?

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The whole os?

          sure, more competition and less microsoft. how would you know how the win phone OS performs? There is no excuse for owning any microsoft product. you are the enemy of humanity and you will be rooted out!

      3. Jan Hargreaves
        Mushroom

        Re: Ironic!

        That would be why most of YouTube is still H.264 then??

        Also, VP8 is inferior to H.264 in every way. It's a larger file, it's a lower quality picture, it's a format that doesn't play on servers without extra configuration, and no support for hardware acceleration. Pretty lame....

        Also video has nothing to do with this story so not sure what bandwagon you are on. If I have been caught by excellent trolling then my hat goes off to you sir.

        1. eulampios

          vp8 vs h.264

          so you're another expert of video codecs, right? And video is played on not served by servers. Interesting..

    6. Craigness

      Re: Ironic!

      Back in the day, when Microsoft had the clout to act like the bully, they served different html to IE and Opera browsers from their MSN site. The code served to IE worked on Opera, but what was served to Opera was a less polished interface. It made IE look "better".

      And this: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/msn/

      Does anyone else find that the Google search pages have a different, more functional design on the stock Android browser to what you get on Firefox for Android?

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ironic!

      No sympathy here for MS, it has being trying to kick the shit out of Linux using every dirty trick in the book.

    8. N2 Silver badge

      Re: Ironic!

      Pot Kettle & black springs to mind & Microsoft are from the market leader they once were by a long way. Thumbs down maybe but just my take

    9. revdjenk

      Re: Ironic!

      I browsed to microsoft.com to send them a note about this irony from my Chrome browser on my Android tablet!

      Whining babies comes to mind...

    10. Anonymous Coward
      Devil

      Re: Ironic!

      Lets play the Microsoft game...

      In the following paragraphs, swap the names around....

      "According to Heiner, Google has denied Microsoft's YouTube app access to metadata that would allow it to deliver all of YouTube's functionality, including such features as user ratings and the ability to search for videos by categories.

      Because of this limitation, he says, Microsoft has been forced to deliver an app that's really nothing more than a repackaged version of the YouTube website running in a browser – unlike the apps for other platforms, which offer richer experiences."

      So you get something like this:

      "According to Heiner, Microsoft has denied Google's / Firefox's / Netscape's, YouTube app (or any other piece of software) access to metadata that would allow it to deliver all of YouTube's functionality, including such features as user ratings and the ability to search for videos by categories.

      Because of this limitation, he says, Microsoft have been forced to deliver an app that's really nothing more than a repackaged version of the YouTube website running in a browser – unlike the apps for other platforms, which offer richer experiences."

      I remember for YEARS that Microsofts IDIOT media player that so totally fucked things up, so badly that any other program by any other company, was WAY better, and now we have Open Source "VLC MEDIA PLAYER" and the like to play almost anything, on any Operating System, while Microsoft's management simply squat on a bigger DRM butt plug.

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

    This from the same company that's going around Android licensees, demanding money for menaces^h alleged patents in the form of protection money^h^h licensing agreements. They really ought to be more careful on how they engage allegations of dubious trading conduct; it's only a matter of time before the FTC, and the EC, out them. It's a clear anti-trust violation. Just amazed that they've got away with that for so long.

    Unlike these PR stunts, no consumer is complaining about Google, only Microsoft. Competition is but a mouse click away for the rest of us, if indeed there was a credible alternative.

    1. Tom 35

      Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

      From the fine people who bring you active X and silverlight.

      1. mathew42
        Unhappy

        Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

        Standard Microsoft strategy is to change direction about every five years. This leaves developers either working with old technology or needing to rewrite significant functionality.

        1. Ragarath

          Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

          Not that I agree with it at all (the patent stuff not being outed etc), but I fail to understand your reasoning. If they have these patents, they should be able to charge for them. As it seems they are agreeing with the companies that are paying the licensing fees there must be something too them and they must be real.

          Yes the patent system in the US needs to be overhauled, worldwide it needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into something more workable. But why are you not asking everyone that has patents to stop using them? Oh yes sorry I forgot, it affects your beloved Linux and therefore it is bad, bad, bad because it is not free and is owned by a Company you have a distinct dislike for.

          1. Captain Underpants

            Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

            "If they have these patents, they should be able to charge for them."

            Yeah, but the issue is more that they're insisting they have these patents but refusing to clarify how exactly Android infringes and trying to do the "You wouldn't want to end up in court discussing this, would you?" sales pitch for the settlement.

            It's especially dubious when Microsoft is trying to promote its own competing OS in partnership with a rival company to those whom it is threatening with litigation. It may be innocent, but MS have a fine track history in corporate-level felonious bellendery so I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions either way...

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

              I'm sure the companies that are paying the license fees have seen the patents in question. If they didn't have any relevance to Android then by now at least one of them would have said no and ended up in court over it.

            2. Juan Inamillion

              Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

              .."corporate-level felonious bellendery..."

              Upvote just for that. Thanks!

          2. oldcoder

            Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

            no.

            We don't know what "patents" MS is holding over them.

            The companies pay extortion just because it is cheaper than the lawsuit (about 5 million US per patent).

            1. Ragarath

              Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

              But surely in the negotiations they have to show the patents to the people involved. Otherwise they could say, well hey, we're not infringing as you can't tell us what we're infringing, and carry on.

              Perhaps I live in a dream world and for some reason this is not possible. But a lot of the companies involved can easily afford what you are saying.

      2. Keep Refrigerated
        Angel

        Re: Be careful who you engage with anti-competitive allegations

        Not to mention MS Office for Linux...

  4. AndrewA
    Mushroom

    Ooooh the irony

    So, after spending the best part of 15 years screwing competitors and partners with secret APIs, unannounced API changes and even code that detects competitors and issues spurious warnings (remember DR DOS?), Microsoft finds itself at the other end of such 'competitiveness'. Oooh the irony.

    1. Roger Greenwood
      Go

      Re: Ooooh the irony

      I'm also thinking SMB protocol.

      1. Chris Walton
        Devil

        Re: Ooooh the irony

        I'm thinking about the time when MSN served up a broken style sheet for the opera browser

        http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/06/msn_deliberately_breaks_operas_browser/

      2. Pirate Dave Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: Ooooh the irony

        Yeah, I'm sure Jeremy Allison broke down into tears when he read this article. Poor Microsoft. They were probably tears of joy...

    2. Matthew 3

      Re: Ooooh the irony

      So, it seems like the consensus here is 'an eye for an eye'?

      Maybe Microsoft do deserve a bit of their own medicine but Google would earn far more of my respect if their behaviour was above reproach. In my view deliberately anti-competitive is just wrong, even if it represents a bit of karma rebalancing.

  5. Herby

    What about those websites

    That only work with IE?

    Sorry!

    1. C 7
      FAIL

      Re: What about those websites

      Which Microsoft website only works with IE?

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: What about those websites

        Anything using OutlookWebAccess to use Microsoft mail through the web only works properly under IE

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