back to article AntiLeaks boss: We'll keep pummeling WikiLeaks and Assange

As the nine-day DDoS hammering of WikiLeaks continues, hacking group AntiLeaks, has said that attacks will continue and widen, but have nothing to do with the Trapwire monitoring system the whistle-blowing site has been documenting. In an email conversation with The Register, someone claiming to be the head of the AntiLeaks …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It would be better...

    ...to just use judicial process to hold Assange accountable for his actions starting in Sweden.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It would be better...

      What actions?

      Or don't you believe in innocent until proven guilty.

      And it does appear that Sweden does have a different definition of 'rape' to the rest of the world.

      1. Ian Michael Gumby
        Boffin

        ? Innocent until proven guilty? Re: It would be better...

        That's a common misconception.

        Under the law during the trial you are presumed innocent until the prosecution has met the burden of proof to prove one's guilt.

        But Assange fled jurisdiction before he could be formally charged. So there is no presumption of innocence or guilt until he is returned to the jurisdiction so that he can be formally charged and then tried.

        As to what Sweden considers 'rape' is up to Sweden. The fact that Assange stands accused and the Swedish prosecutor believes that the evidence is credible, then they have the right under the terms of the EAW to issue the arrest warrant. Rape is one of the 32 specified crimes where the requirement of duopoly is not required.

        (That is to say, if Sweden says its a crime, its a crime regardless if its not a crime elsewhere in the EU.)

        [Read the EAW and the law]

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Ian Michael Gumby - Re: ? Innocent until proven guilty? It would be better...

          And US not dictating other countries it's another misconception. You're largely assuming here US has no involvement and no desire to get their hands on JA.

          1. Ian Michael Gumby
            Boffin

            @AC Re: @Ian Michael Gumby - ? Innocent until proven guilty? It would be better...

            I think you give the US too much credit.

            Compared to the Mossad and Russians, possibly others, the US is horrible at wet work and at keeping something a secret. They are also horrible at cleaning up after themselves.

            But more to the point, this whole side show is all of JA's doing.

            In a nutshell, the US released information during Manning's Article 32 hearing which shows JA in communication w Manning as well as allegedly assisting in the crime itself.

            Remember that part of Assange's journey to Sweden was to attempt and gain citizenship. In light of the US evidence, JA could still be extradited from Sweden. It would all be above board and legal under international law to extradite JA from Sweden or any other Western country for his actions based on this evidence alone.

            (Even Australia would have been happy to hand him over. )

            Sorry, but this whole mess in Sweden is a self inflicted wound on the part of Assange.

        2. Silent but Deadly

          Re: ? Innocent until proven guilty? It would be better...

          Except that the warrant is for questioning. There is not even a case for laying charges yet. The warrant has been issued by the equivalent of a police prosecutor, not a judge.

          1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

            Re: ? Innocent until proven guilty? It would be better...

            Except that the warrant is for questioning. There is not even a case for laying charges yet. The warrant has been issued by the equivalent of a police prosecutor, not a judge.

            Which might be something to do with the fact that under Swedish law you cannot charge someone until they've been formally questioned. Stop trotting this shit out, it doesn't help your side of the argument at all.

            1. Miek
              Linux

              Re: ? Innocent until proven guilty? It would be better...

              Julian Assange asked permission to leave Sweden which was granted by the initial prosecutor. Assange then left the Country and a second prosecutor took the reigns and reinstated the case, issued a European arrest warrant which kind of makes it look like he fled when in fact he was already out of the country when his *new* arrest warrant was issued. Julian Assange did not flee from Sweden.

              "Which might be something to do with the fact that under Swedish law you cannot charge someone until they've been formally questioned" -- I'm quite positive that this practice is not confined to Sweden.

              1. Ian Michael Gumby
                Mushroom

                @Miek Re: ? Innocent until proven guilty? It would be better...

                Clearly you choose to ignore the facts which were presented in JA's first appeal against the EAW. The Swedish prosecutor pretty much debunked your views. Not to mention JA's Swedish attorney crumbled under cross by the Prosecution's legal team. He pretty much admitted that he assisted JA by 'running interference' (my term) as JA ducked out of the country.

      2. asdf
        Thumb Down

        Re: It would be better...

        >Or don't you believe in innocent until proven guilty

        No no its innocent until broke or in rare cases like this innocent until you piss off senior US administration officials.

      3. streaky
        Pirate

        Re: It would be better...

        "And it does appear that Sweden does have a different definition of 'rape' to the rest of the world"

        There is actually one count of what the "rest of the world" calls rape.

        Not for nothing but Assange is a rapist and he can avail himself of any English court he likes to sue me if he doesn't agree. Oh wait no he can't.

        Right of cross-examination is a bitch isn't it Julian?

      4. Scorchio!!
        FAIL

        Re: It would be better...

        "And it does appear that Sweden does have a different definition of 'rape' to the rest of the world."

        Leaving your semen inside of someone who does not want it, but wants the protection of a condom has long been a serious judicial problem in every European country that I can think of, except for the UK, where people still think it is alright. In Germany Nadja Benaissa was lucky to be in receipt of a two year suspended sentence, though she was not charged with rape of course: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10983227

        This is a deadly matter, involving playing Russian roulette with hapless victims lives. If Assange had unprotected sex with these women, against their will, then rape is an appropriate charge, though not consistent with the gravity of the crime which is potentially life threatening. Remember, Assange has a record of promiscuity. Read the transcript of his BBC interview with John Humphrys.

        1. Ian Michael Gumby
          Angel

          @ Scorchio, Re: It would be better...

          You wouldn't happen to have a link to that transcript w John Humphrys?

          1. Scorchio!!

            Re: @ Scorchio, It would be better...

            "You wouldn't happen to have a link to that transcript w John Humphrys?"

            Hello there my friend; I do have a link, but it is about a hundred miles away from here. I don't know when I can make it to my network, and it is always down when I am away.

            Just did a search. In this interview ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9308000/9308216.stm ) he says he is at peace, and some bullshit about loving women. It's quite stomach churning as a whole because the man shows no insight at all.

        2. Ian Michael Gumby
          Boffin

          @Scorochio... Re: It would be better...

          I did a quick google... found the transcript.

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9309000/9309320.stm

          Granted this was done December 21,2010... but putting this in perspective, based on what we know now...

          Assange has damned himself if he ever see's a court room.

          His interviews can and will be used against him in a court of law.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It would be better...

        A Swedish friend tells me that you can "sexually assault" a woman in Sweden with gestures and glances so subtle that a degree in Gender Studies would be required to interpret them.

      6. TeeCee Gold badge

        Re: It would be better...

        Definately innocent uintil proven guilty.

        The problem here is that the phenomenal effort he's making to ensure that the Swedish prosecutors never get to present their evidence is forcing difficult questions to be asked about his motivation[1].

        [1] The tinfoil hatters can fuck off here. It's a heck of a sight easier, if you are the US, to get an extradition on a flimsy premise from the UK than it is from SE.

      7. boltar Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: It would be better...

        "Or don't you believe in innocent until proven guilty."

        Yes, because old Julian is really proving to the world how innocent he must be by claiming politican asylum in a 3rd world country so he can escape justice from one of the most liberal countries in the world.

        Call me a cynic , but my money goes on him being as guilty as hell and he knows it which is why he's prepared to go live in some fleepit for the rest of his life. Naturally all his naive lets-stick-it-to-the-man fanbois will shout and curse at anyone who says otherwise about their hero but then we had all the same angelic nonsense spouted about another geek hero Hans Reiser until he led police to the body of his wife he murdered. Suddenly all the fanbois STFU. Perhaps some of them grew up at the same time but I doubt it.

        1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart

          Re: It would be better...

          Fail, yours, MASSIVE

          Yes, because old Julian is really proving to the world how innocent he must be by claiming politican asylum in a 3rd world country so he can escape justice from one of the most liberal countries in the world.

          Which liberal country would that be then? Sweden, where Friendship and cooperation between the United States and Sweden is strong and close or the Amerikan Reich where Data intelligence firms proposed a systematic attack against WikiLeaks?

          "old Julian" may be a annoying opinionated self-serving philandering egotist, but that does not mean the yanks (or anybody else) aren't out to get him. Congratulations for your 'ad hominem' attack on "old Julian", you may now leave room 101.

          1. Scorchio!!
            FAIL

            Re: It would be better...

            I suggest you read up on the government of Ecuador, including material on the deaths of journalists who expose corruption and nepotism in the government. It is grim reading, and Assange is clearly a friend in need, made of the same material.

            1. Local Group
              Holmes

              Re: Scorchio!! DDoS attack

              "the Ecuadorian attack had been flagged up in advance to German tech site Gulli.com...." would suggest to me this is more an anti-Anon backlash from a German hacker group than the CIA/NSA or even Yank patriots. I can think of a dozen American sites that would have been much more likely to be used to tip-off the attack rather than Gulli.com."

              Unless of course, it was the intention of these ex-CIA agents to lead the criminal activity to Germany, and away from the CIA's door where it would be spotted by blood hounds like you. With respect, Scorchio!!, this wasn't a tip-off at all. This was tossing the body out the plane over Germany to throw the criminal hacker justice system off the trail.

              Are CIA agents really smart enough to think of an intricate deception like that?

              German AntiLeaks hackers targeting the Ecuadorian President when everybody knows that the Pentagon is the most pissed off party.

              1. Scorchio!!
                FAIL

                Re: Scorchio!! DDoS attack

                "Unless of course, it was the intention of these ex-CIA agents to lead the criminal activity to Germany, and away from the CIA's door where it would be spotted by blood hounds like you. With respect, Scorchio!!, this wasn't a tip-off at all."

                Kindly piss off with the misattributions; I did not make the comments that you attribute to me, and you do yourself an injury, that is to say you appear to be more k00ky and more unreliable.

                HTH.

                1. Local Group
                  Meh

                  Re: Scorchio!! DDoS attack

                  "I took you for your better."

                  Where's the crime in that?

          2. Scorchio!!
            FAIL

            Re: It would be better...

            "Which liberal country would that be then?"

            Not this one; http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/wha/154504.htm http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-ecuador

            Sounds like a haven for pukka journalists, right? Riiiiiiiight. Just the sort of place where one might find a creature like Assange, a self described journalist; his predilection for double standards being a perfect match for Ecuador, including his proposed 'pay wall' for information retrieval, accepting a down payment on his autobiography from his publisher and then withdrawing, his £80,000 'salary', his rage when the Grauniad started publishing information formerly in his clutch only describing the information as 'his property' (I expect the irony has not escaped the security services of the country from whom it was originally stolen), his hypocrisy on the safety of Afghan informants whose data he gave away ( http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/leaked-details-put-informant-lives-in-danger/story-e6frg6so-1225898206990 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7917955/Wikileaks-Afghanistan-Taliban-hunting-down-informants.html ), and on the story goes...

            ...until conviction, sentencing and serving the sentence. In a bubbery.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. LarsG
      Meh

      DDoS attack?

      DDoS attack..... As funded by the USA.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: DDoS attack?

        The line from the article ".....the Ecuadorian attack had been flagged up in advance to German tech site Gulli.com...." would suggest to me this is more an anti-Anon backlash from a German hacker group than the CIA/NSA or even Yank patriots. I can think of a dozen American sites that would have been much more likely to be used to tip-off the attack rather than Gulli.com.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It would be better...

      if people would secure their computers and maintain their networks or get them the hell off the internet. Unplugging all of China and Korea until they fix their APNIC records would be a great start. Take the first 'D' out of DDoS.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It would be better...

        Spoken like someone that doesn't like to look to close to home. Any chance of unplugging the US before Korea (which one BTW, there are two you know)?

        https://www.symantec.com/threatreport/topic.jsp?id=threat_activity_trends&aid=malicious_activity_by_source

  2. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Oppression

    "You can't see Wikileaks because they're bad news. Why they're bad news? Because we said so".

    This is basically summing up the actions at hand and I don't think its that hard to find out what's wrong about all this.

    I don't care if you're in favour or against Wikileaks. At the very least allow people to make up their own mind about it, this is nothing more than oppression.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. asdf
        Joke

        Re: Oppression

        Oops no offense meant to the Bette Midler fans out there.

        1. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Oppression

          And there was me thinking you meant Helen Shapiro....

  3. David Webb

    Even if Assange get's asylum there is no way for him to get out of the UK without being arrested short of Ecuador giving him diplomatic immunity and even then the UK government could arrest him as he didn't enter the country with a diplomatic passport so his diplomatic status wouldn't be valid.

    So with the fact that he can't leave the country without being arrested for breaching his bail conditions, what does antileaks hope to gain?

    1. Scorchio!!

      "Even if Assange get's asylum there is no way for him to get out of the UK without being arrested short of Ecuador giving him diplomatic immunity and even then the UK government could arrest him as he didn't enter the country with a diplomatic passport so his diplomatic status wouldn't be valid."

      Soon Julie will have to make up his mind, 'Daddy or chips':

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19251943

    2. Scorchio!!
      Happy

      Here is an update; according to the Today Programme, around 07 .15 this morning, asylum/refugee status cannot be granted to people charged or about to be charged with such crimes as rape, and (IIRC) the Today Programme journalists confirmed that the Swedes have a warrant for his arrest and the charges prepared for their ever loving friend.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @David Webb

    There is - it's known as the 'diplomatic bag'.

    It need not be a bag, as long as it is labelled as diplomatic baggage, e.g. the Dikko Affair.

    1. Scorchio!!
      Angel

      Re: @David Webb

      "It need not be a bag, as long as it is labelled as diplomatic baggage, e.g. the Dikko Affair."

      Indeed! Just picture the progress of the 'diplomatic bag' down Knightsbridge when, suddenly, a terrorist incident, fire or other major disaster occurs, causing traffic to come to a complete standstill. Armed police everywhere, the 'bag' is given priority protection by the British police as a matter of courtesy to our Ecuadorian diplomatic guests.

      Suddenly, after two hours the 'bag' trembles and shakes, as its inhabitant realises that it has come to the end of its air supply, and bursts out, gulping air into its lungs; "you're nicked sonny boi". Plus of course the Ecuadorian diplomatic mission would be in delta sierra. That is, of course, if they are sufficiently silly to send a man sized package from out of their embassy, it being that normal diplomatic traffic is far smaller. Especially for low profile diplomatic missions from small countries. To say nothing of modern scanning equipment, which could be deployed in advance of such an attempt, whilst advising the his excellency the Ambassador that we can tell if his staff are trafficking in human bodies.

  5. Christopher Edwards

    "The system is a conspiracy theorist's wet dream"

    Well it isn't a theory is it?

  6. Ian Michael Gumby

    Two wongs don't make a wright

    Sorry for the bad title.

    While I think Assange is a total prat, that doesn't mean that a DDoS attack against him or Wikileaks is a good idea.

  7. ratfox Silver badge
    Happy

    Curious and impatient to see the reaction of Anonymous

    …oh, and of justice systems. DDoS is a crime, amirite?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Curious and impatient to see the reaction of Anonymous

      DDoS is a crime.

      Catching the people behind it is a matter of priority.

      DDoS The FBI = Priority high

      DDoS Poodlepower = Priority normal

      DDoS Wikileaks = Priority 'come in for you medal'

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Could well be some run-of-the-mill Obamites

        Really, BLACK POTUS and THE MADAME couldn't hope for a better ally. After all, this is the presidency that "cracks down hard" (to use the usual beloved quasi-nazi term) on whistleblowers and leakers unless the leaks have not been approved beforehand and released with strategic timing.

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: Could well be some run-of-the-mill Obamites

          Have a downvote for emphasizing the irrelevant factor of Obama's race.

        2. Ian Michael Gumby
          WTF?

          @Destroy all Monsters...Re: Could well be some run-of-the-mill Obamites

          I chose the WTF icon because clearly you don't know much about the current administration's politics here in the US. They are under a lot of scrutiny for all of the 'leaks' occurring in the White House and by its staff.

    2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Curious and impatient to see the reaction of Anonymous

      The reaction of the Anonyputz skiddies has been delayed by their inability to find a downloadable script for DDoSing a DDoSer. Attacking state or private institutions which have fixed targets is easy, but hitting a moving target which doesn't have a public face is much harder. Once again, the Anons have been caught out by their own tactics.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    ft's

    so theres another group of f.ck turd script kiddies at work,cor,exciting,interesting,news,i think not.

    why should anyone listen to this bunch of twats anymore than we listen to the twats behind lulzsec etc.

    more bored and boring little kiddies with no productive ideas.

    bet they still fall over with a well placed baseball bat.

    ha ha

    tossers

  9. John Deeb
    Pirate

    it's a trap!

    This sounds more like an elaborate move to draw someone out. They need to know who controls the botnets and this is a way to trace it, if you give a predictable target in advance. Just saying... Or perhaps it's just mindless attention seeking. In both cases my advice would be to ignore the taunt.

  10. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    The truth never hurt good folk but it always destroys that which requires destruction?

    A little something for the grown-ups to know about the likes of a DietPepsi/shill? ........ http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-08-13/15-rules-web-disruption

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Assange can run...

    ...but not forever. He'll eventually face his accusers in Sweden.

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