back to article Try a 'shroom before ruling on chill pills, boffin tells gov

The government may never be able to “think rationally” about the therapeutic properties of hallucinogenic drugs, says Professor David Nutt. The top boffin was speaking on the publication of two new studies that show the anti-depressant qualities of magic mushrooms. Prof Nutt, who was sacked from his role as Blighty's top drug …

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  1. Olafthemighty
    Happy

    YAY!

    Fun AND good for you - not much else you can say that about these days!

    1. Richard Wharram

      In perspective.

      The actual shrooms taste foul and are liable to make you vomit.

      Allegedly.

      1. dotdavid
        Pint

        Re: In perspective.

        " The actual shrooms taste foul and are liable to make you vomit."

        Funny, when I started drinking I thought the same thing about alcohol.

        Thankfully I grew out of it.

        1. Aaron Em

          No, it's not a habituation thing

          Psilocybin mushrooms grow best on old cow shit. Guess what they taste like?

          1. Framitz

            From personal experience, they taste like nothing. Closest is unsalted popcorn flesh.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Its not really the taste..

              Its the texture and the fact that my throat clamps shut when i attempt to eat them.

              That and the fact that walls shouldn't breathe!!!!!

              Fun though in the right dose, too much and youre in for a rough ride, mopre so if you arent in safe comfortable surroundings....

        2. Unicornpiss Silver badge
          Angel

          They're good when you put them on a pizza...

          um... so I've heard...

      2. hplasm
        Happy

        Just like most Govt proclamations, then.

        Which also leave a foul taste in the mouth, and induce the desire to vomit.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        WRONG, those are the toxic variety, leave them alone!

    2. g e

      Hah!

      Those two qualities alone will make the gubbernment keep the stuff banned

    3. nexsphil

      fun?

      The government will insist any 'fun' element is classified 'abuse potential' and eliminated from any approved version of the drug. Basically, if it's any fun and the fun can't be removed somehow it's banned by default, and the sufferers of the diseases it cures can go fuck themselves.

    4. Allison Park
      Angel

      I love mushrooms

      I eat the good ones and avoid the poisonous ones.

      are these poisonous?

      man made stuff is bad for you. these were made by God

      1. M Gale

        Psylocibin Mexicana

        Tastes like shit washed down with bitrex. Hits you like a sledgehammer and leaves you drooling on the sofa trying not to vomit for a good quarter hour. Was more fun after that.

        Legally obtained btw.

        1. Adam Nealis
          Black Helicopters

          Make tea. Hold your nose while drinking. Apparently.

          The psilocybin is not active until hydrolysed. Stomach acids do this. Hence the 30 - 60 minute delay before onset of "symptoms" and the feeling of having been ripped off if you didn't pick them yourself but bought them. Allegedly.

          Apparently if you boil them in water, this will hydrolyse the stuff for you, so when it is imbibed it gets to work right away.

          My friend tells me someone he knows would pinch his nose and drink the lot in one go. That way you only taste the last mouthful after you let go of your nose. Even Vimto doesn't render it palatable. Supposedly.

  2. Anonymous Coward 101
    Windows

    “What's fascinating is that you could think they wouldn't, and of course you're right.”

    I've read that 1000 times, and it still doesn't make any sense.

    1. johnnytruant

      try some of this lovely mushroom tea

      then read it again. all will become clear.

      1. TeeCee Gold badge
        WTF?

        Bloody hell! It's actually all about flatfish, motorcycles and pixies!

    2. El Presidente

      Makes perfect sense

      “What's fascinating is that you could think they wouldn't, and of course you're right.”

      Prof. Nutt is saying that such unequivocal certainty must be the result of unbalanced and unnatural thought processes.

      It's borderline demented gubmint indoctrination: Drugs=Bad which is, demonstrably, bollocks.

      1. Thomas 4

        We will not be seen as a government that endorse drug use!

        Now shut up and eat your Prozac.

        1. Miek
          Coat

          Don't forget to wash it down with some Cabernet Sauvignon.

          1. El Presidente

            Wash It Down ? Y'mean Wash Your Hands ?

            This is France we're talking about ... Everything medicinal goes up the bum.

            That includes sticking plasters, splints and spectacles in some Arrondissements.

            Method of delivery is possibly one reason the regulatory people are squeamish about registering the wonder drug mentioned by Voland's right hand for use in the UK.

            1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
              Devil

              @El Presidente

              No, it is not delivered the "french way".

              Standard oral suspension (phenomenally vile as taste so you usually have to force kids to take it).

              Name is Racecadotril.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racecadotril

            2. Joefish
              Joke

              Are you suggesting the British

              Don't like it up 'em?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Alright Jones, settle down

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Natural drugs = bad

          But take all the Xanax, OxyContin, Hydrocodone, Adderall, Prozac, Desoxyn (prescription methamphetamine for ADD treatment), Ambien, Ritalin and Viagra your doctors prescribe. *That's* ok. Got it?

      2. Aaron Em

        Drugs=Bad

        Is that a) more bollocks, b) less bollocks, or c) about the same degree of bollocks as the "Drugs=Good" counter-propaganda beloved of so many in the so-called counter-culture?

        1. Someone Else Silver badge
          Alert

          @Aaron Em

          The answer is a).

          Next question?

        2. El Presidente

          All drugs are good

          And the more you take, the better they get.

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Devil

      It starts making sense when you see approval stats

      The best drug against diarrhea which is prescribed everywhere in Europe for cases of acute dehydration including ones from Norovirus (winter vomiting bug) was developed by the French by taking morphine and playing with it until all nasty bits are gone and only the "constipates" bit is left. It is non-addictive, it has been proven to be clinically safe from kids through adults to geriatrics worldwide to the point where in most of Europe it is available over the counter. It has saved hundreds of thousands of people worldwide.

      The only country in Europe which pretends that it does not exist is UK. French + morphine origin. UK approval? You _GOTTA_ _BE_ _KIDDING_...

      Sorry, do not have the time to go and peek in my travel kit for the name (I resupply regularly with it when I go to the continent and so do quite a few other people who have to travel to unpleasant places).

      1. Michael Dunn
        Holmes

        Cure for diarrhea

        What I used to swear by out east was paregoric: camphorated tincture of opium. When I returned to UK in 1972, I was actually able to persuade a pharmacist in the local Boots to make me up a 20 cc bottle of it. Sinc e you only use one drop in about 5 - 10 cc of water for each dose - and you'll only need the one - it lasted quite a long time. Doubt if I could get it now.

      2. Alex Rose

        @Voland's right hand

        How do you explain kaolin and morphine mixture being available over the counter in the UK? Is it only allowed because it's not French?

        1. Semihere
          Thumb Up

          Kaolin and Morphine

          Exactly - we used to be given this as kids to treat diarohea. I remember it used to settle off into the two constituent parts in the bottle and you had to shake it up to mix before taking. Tasted like chalk.

          http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/digestive-health/medicines/kaolin-and-morphine-mixture.html

      3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge
        Boffin

        @Voalnd's right hand

        In the UK, you can buy loperamide, for pennies from most supermarkets. This too acts upon the morphine receptors in the gut, is safe, non-addictive and has relatively few side effects. I'm not sure what drug you are talking about, but loperamide works fine, and is non-prescription.

      4. bexley

        Its called loperamide

        and is available over the counter is the UK, they sell it in petrol stations.

        Imodium is the brand name in the UK.

        Back to the mushrooms. The ban something that grows naturally is quite abusrb, nobody has ever been hurt by magic mushrooms. There are plenty of mushrooms out there that can kill you but they are not banned. The magic ones however are banned. This makes no sense at all.

        You cant get addicted to mushrooms, it is simply not possible as anyone who has taken the will confirm.

        Do reacreational concerns then it mattters not what the government ban and dont ban, people will continue to ignore them in any case. That war on drugs that they have been waging for sometime does not appear to have made much progress.

        The sad thing is that when a clinical reaosn is found to help people with a real problem, they wont hear of it. I dont think that goverments are qualified or approriate to make medical decisions.

  3. g e

    Careful with that dosage, Eugene

    I, for one, can attest to the recreational possibilities of 250 very fresh shrooms....

    Beware the dose size!

    1. Miek

      Would that be considered a "Heroic Dose" ?

      When can we get a Bill Hicks icon ?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Personally I'd like to see the aftermath of parliament trying to discuss drugs objectively whilst whacked out on shrooms.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No comment

      I once partook of some shrooms and watched a political rally. I knew I was fucked when some of what they said started making sense.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It would probably make more sence then when they try to do it under the effect of alcool. Or worst, sober!

  5. Aaron Em

    I, for one, welcome

    our new tripping-balls-by-noontime overlords.

    Me, though, I'll stick to managing depression by methods that don't twist me so far out of my tits that I can no longer hold down a job. Boring, I know.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not boring...

      ...depressing.

      1. Miek
        Coat

        I see what you did there

      2. Aaron Em

        Depressing?

        Less so, I think, than unemployment.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I voted you up ...

      For this: "twist me so far out of my tits"

      My new phrase for the rest of the week, I think.

  6. Ian Ferguson

    Addictiveness

    Question is, is psilocybin addictive?

    I bet it's not as addictive as Seroxat (paroxetine) - which my body has been dependent on for over a decade, on prescription.

    1. JimmyPage
      Flame

      Tricky question

      "Addictive" is a moveable feast (which is one trick the prohibitionist lobby use to scare the public ...). There are different elements of "addiction", none of which the average man in the street knows about.

      Food is physically addictive. Without it, you die.

      Nicotine is physically and psychologically addictive. It's continued use can be shown to create physiological changes which cause the body to react to withdrawal. Same for alcohol.

      Cannabis is, if anything, psyychologically addictive. Users like it, but withdrawal causes no appreciable physiological effect.

      I'm not a pharmakineticist, but would hazard that psilocybin is not addictive in any meaningful sense of the word.

      Of course the real question which gets dodged, should be "what, if any, are the risks of addiction".

      Personally I am sick to the back teeth of the shite science peddled in the name of the "war on drugs", by a hypocritical government. My wife is addicted to benzodiazepienes, thanks to doctors (who would knock a spliff out of your hand) dishing them out like smarties. And when I say "addicted" I mean it. Sudden withdrawal runs a very real risk of death.

      There was a very good article in the Graniud a few years ago, posing the very good question: "Why is it so bad to get high ?". It asked why doctors are so scared to use medicines which get you high, when they are happy to prescribe medicines which can make your life hell (anyone on Chemo will know). Nauseau, drowsiness, digestion problems, headaches, hair loss, libido loss ....

      1. bonkers

        Why are doctors so afraid of prescribing pleasure?

        In my opinion, it's because, before WW1 they would, for a price, come round the house and exorcise the wife and rid her of excess anxieties etc. by causing her to release the pent-up vapours that are the result of not being able to ejaculate. These were released during "hysterical paroxysms", brought about by all manner of patented inventions that bear a striking resemblance to today's vibrators.

        They were a bit embarrassed about that, pissing on your shoes and telling you its raining.

        Anyway, the fundamental issue for me is one of liberty. I do not see a need nor a right to prohibit consenting adults in private from doing whatever they choose.

        1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

          A Passionate Prescription for Excited Contentment aka Satisfaction

          "Why are doctors so afraid of prescribing pleasure?" .... bonkers Posted Wednesday 25th January 2012 17:42 GMT

          Ever been to an orgy, bonkers ...... they're addictive.

      2. Miek
        Boffin

        @JimmyPage

        I completely agree with your point, but, isn't the Food/Air thing 'Physical Dependence' rather than a Physical Addiction as such?.

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