Oracle sues Google over Java in Android

Oracle has mounted a no-holds-barred legal attack on Google's Android operating system in a lawsuit that accuses the internet giant of deliberately infringing patents and copyrights Oracle holds for the Java platform. In a complaint filed late on Thursday, 12 August, Oracle asked a federal court in Northern California to seize …

[JaitcH]

In other words: Share the Wealth, Google.

I want to know why they didn't sue Google for also copying the letters O, L and E for use in their name.

[Jon Double Nice]

Hahaha

dude, I totally have the letter 'O' in my name, and they used it twice!

..

Step 3: Profit!

[Someone Else]

Title?!?

Ooooohh. Prior art...

[Allison Park]

Oracle's hate meter is rising

Oracle will be to the Java community what SCO is to the Linux community.

They are even using the same lawyer!!!! David Boies.

He makes tens of millions and drove SCO out of business, maybe he will be just as successful with Oracle.

We really need a Larry Ellison with devil horns icon to choose from....or maybe Leisure Suit Larry

[Jeff Power]

@Allison Park

Yes, but by being that to the Java community, they'll be loved by the everybody-else community, as Java is generally hated, except by those who love it.

[Rex Alfie Lee]

I thought Java had become at least partially OSS...

Absolutely right - not that Oracle has ever been particularly "not a bunch of wankers" but now they've completely come out of the closet. "We're the fastest database" - no MySQL was but then they bought it. Now they are suing Google for using something that was supposed to be open for business as in OSS. Yes, they reek of SCO-type behaviour & I now hope they end up destitute.

Not a big fan of Goggle at the moment either but this is crap!

[Anonymous Coward]

Been a long time coming...

I can't believe that Sun allowed Google to get away with this in the first place.

Oh, hold on, Andy Bechtolsheim gave some seed capital to the then unnamed company, and Eric, who led Java development for a while, is CEO.

They were our friends, so all was cool. They aren't Larry's friends so the gloves are off.

[David 138]

pffft

hopefully oracle will go bust soon and take java and their database. they are both awful

[Anonymous Coward]

Oracle: The new SCO

So they're suing Google for implementing Java.

They forgot that save for a few classes, much of Java is open-source.

It's like they're trying to stuff a genie back into the bottle.

Now, normally I'd be apathetic towards Google as well (how dare they remove my Hitler Bunker Scene rant about how the local ISP monopoly has canceled plans on bringing in FIOS into my area!), but for this, if they're successful with Google, Nokia will be under the chopper next, and perhaps many other phones that does Java.

And then they'd probably discontinue MySQL, sue Team MediaPortal and declare OpenSolaris illegal.

That's it, I'm outta here. Taxi!

[John 73]

Patents != copyright

Just because Java is Open Source doesn't mean that it can't be patent encumbered.

[David Given]

Oracle: the new SCO

Hilariously, Oracle appear to have contracted Boies, Schiller & Flexner as their lawyers. You may recognise them from other epic court cases such as SCO vs. World...

[Rex Alfie Lee]

Boies, Schiller & Flexner...

Sounds like a really bad case. Hopefully there's an antibiotic to cure this disgusting disease. I'm sure it's one of those ongoing problems that leads to a protracted period of poor health & leads to financial ruin. One can only hope anyway.

[DrXym]

Java isn't awful at all

Java the language and Java the VM are both excellent technologies. Absolutely nothing matches them for stability, breadth of support, portability, tools etc. That includes C# / .NET which although C# is arguably a better language simply isn't portable.

The problem for Java is its stewards are extremely conservative and seem more interested in providing a stable platform for enterprise applications than addressing the needs of desktop apps and mobiles.

I think what is likely to happen over time is that the JVM will continue to be used but apps are going to diversify and start being developed in the likes of Groovy / Scala / Jython etc. where they benefit from dynamic scripting, convention based development and more modern language features but can still benefit from the vast Java ecosystem which exists out there.

[Anonymous Coward]

bad move by oracle

anyone else think oracle bought sun just so they could do stuff like this?

they should be thanking google for helping promote the java platform, not suing them.

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, let's extend that logic...

Right so can I have all those pictures you have on your phone of you family please? I just want you to thank me for promoting your life!

No you don't any say in how I promote you, I just want to do it my way without any say from you.

Alright if I manipulate your family pics on my grot site? I'm still promoting them and you should thank me for it!

Personally I think Oracle are being scum but it's their property and they still have a say in how it's used and abused, whatever Google may think.

[Rex Alfie Lee]

I wonder who the 4 against are?

Perhaps Boies, Schiller & Flexner & Larry himself onboard as Anonymous Twats!

[Ian Yates]

I see

Now Oracle's takeover makes more sense.

I can't see how this is going to benefit the Java community in any positive way; this is just Oracle acting for their own self interest.

I know, I know, they are a company and this is a product (albeit, reasonably open), but Java is a community (as is any development language), and Oracle should be thinking of their effects on that as much as any profits.

Ah well, it's all MHO.

[Antidisestablishmentarianist]

Go Oracle!!

Whoop whoop!

Get the fsuckers

[Anonymous Coward]

YES! Go Oracle, go!

I don't like patents but sometimes you have to fight back with what you have. Google is an evil empire. When are we getting the "evil Eric Schmidt" icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Evil Eric Icon? In my Register?

It's closer than you think.

[Stiggy]

I Agree

Kinda...

Go, Oracle. Just go.

Away.

[iamapizza]

My first thought...

This is why we can't have nice things.

[What Now]

@iamapizza

Yes+++

[Anonymous Coward]

The interesting question now becomes...

What will we replace Java with? The freedom's gone from this language, let's find something else. And don't get started on the IcedTea/OpenJDK implementation, it's not compatible enough and too compatible by far.

[Iceman]

Nice little snake in title.

Try python.

[Anonymous Coward]

Never understood why google didn't buy sun

Given how much google uses java and the knowledge and people sun possessed in the real time, jit and general vm capabilities, I never understood why google did not jut buy sun. Philosophically sun is much more aligned to goggle rather than oracle.

[alain williams]

Maybe Oracle wants Google to buy part of Sun

If Google bought Java off Oracle it would relieve it of something that it doesn't want.

Watch Oracle next hit HP or IBM with some hardware patents law suit - and get them to buy the remains of Sun hardware to make the law suit go away.

Oracle could then slowly strangle mysql and eliminate that as a competitor.

[Stephen Bungay]

Strangle MySQL?

Me thinks not. A GPLd application is going to be impossible to kill, too many people have a vested interest in it AND the freedom to continue developing it.

[TheGlobalMind]

Oracle wishes it had something on IBM

Sorry for Oracle but IBM kills them on the hardware. Hell IBM for a long time was the fab for some of Sun's gear.

The real shame is that IBM should have kept their boot in it and bought Sun. This suit would never happen in that case as IBM has it's own self interest in seeing Java prosper.

Oracle on the other hand is interested in killing off anything it didn't come up with.

[Anonymous Coward]

MySQL going?

I think not. Oracle probably needs something to counter DB2 Community Edition in the shallow end of the market and with MySQL they've got it already, with a lively community as an added bonus. They would be silly to ditch it. Not that that has ever stopped anyone... :-)

[Chris Miller]

Fight, fight!

Cue "my lawyer's more expensive than your lawyer" battle - is it very wrong of me to hope that both sides lose?

Opens giant economy tub of popcorn and settles back in seat.

[breakfast]

Yes

Actually it is very wrong of you because if both sides lose that means that the lawyers win.

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play

[Chris Miller]

First rule of litigation

The lawyers *always* win.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay

Yay for lawyers always winning.

More litigation please.

[Employed by lawyers]

[pahjbo]

RIP Java

Oracle buying Sun put Java on life support - this sort of thing is pulling the plug. Oracle should note that Sun suing Microsoft was the beginning of the end of Sun also

[jonathan rowe]

look at the patents

Look at the patents, they are generic enough to apply to just about any other language runtime. What utter bullshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

And anyone doubted Oracle was EVIL?

Well first we know Oracle lies, it promised the European Competition Commision it would be a good steward for Java.

Next I guess we can expect Oracle to sue world plus dog over MySQL.

TIME TO STOP USING JAVA.

It is pretty bad when you have to acknowledge that Microsoft is the better corporate citizen.

Well it is good that C# is a marginally better language than Java, and that it learned from Zend and the AS400 to compile on first use, making it substantially more efficient than the hot spot compiling silliness in many versions of Java.

It is really too bad you can not lock executives up for deceiving European regulators, it might make these companies acquisition promises worth the toilet paper they are written on.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Well, you can use Clojure then...

> Calls for stopping to use Java

> Proclaims that C# is a marginally better language than Java

My face on the left

[Anonymous Coward]

wrong!

Numpty

The CLR dynamically compiles code as well, why is that? because dynamic compilation is faster in the long run than statically compiled code. It can inline code between modules/jars/assemblies, it can pass parameters through the registers, it can see how the code interacts and perform more effective compilation. Stick to RPG.

[Shakje]

Re: wrong!

It dynamically compiles, but it keeps hold of the compiled code in memory so that it doesn't have to compile it again. I.e. if you're doing a massive for loop with some repetitive crap in the middle it'll only compile the repetitive crap once during that process' lifetime, and then just calls the compiled code for every other iteration. Unless I'm very much mistaken, the JVM compiles every time it hits something.

Once again, unless I'm very much mistaken, that makes you the numpty.

[maxki]

wrong law suit

If I was Oracle , I would sue the sun - I mean that bright shiny thing - and demand that it changes its name to something else.

Hereby this idea is copyrighted , just in case Oracle decide to sue the sun.

[Anonymous Coward]

IP law 101

sorry, you cannot copyright ideas.

[Rob Dobs]

wrong

You are morally right, you SHOULD not be able to copy ideas. However the US allows for patents on both Business processes and methods, and any story or work is an idea, and protected by copyright law.

A business process or method (one click shopping) can be patented (AND WITHHELD form the rest of us) simply by filing the paperwork and paying the money. The process doesn't have to be made, or even work, just described.

This is SO against what copyright and patents were intended for its sick.

Time to start a Pirate Party in the US, and force a change in IP rules.

DumbF&*Cks selling media don't realize the system is so gamed against the average person, that the average person feels morally righteous in stealing from these evil empires.

[TonyHoyle]

The end of java then

Oracle have decided that java is a single vendor solution. No JVM except the Oracle JVM.

Can't see the language surviving that.

Of course with those patents c# is going to have a fight too (which is also a single vendor solution, but it never pretended to be anything else.. and the vendor is big enough to get away with it).

[amehaye]

Actually, *you* are wrong

C# and the CLR are indeed ECMA standards. However, they are also patent encumbered. You are only as free to create an implementation of them as Microsoft wills you to.

[Anonymous Coward]

What is worse is JAVA IS NOT STANDARDIZED

Java is NOT an ISO standard (as C# is), in fact standardization ISN'T EVEN IN PROGRESS. Sun withdrew the Java standard when they found that they must release control over the language and CONTRIBUTE RELATED IP (read patents) to the public good.

Java is a "Community Process", contributors and committees make submitals to Sun and Sun decides what to include (it now feels like steal). No one can do jack with Java officially that Sun (Oracle) does not approve.

Microsoft maintains control over SOME C#/CLR IP, but it relates mostly to Windows implementations. For what is in ECMA/ISO control, ECMA/ISO also has a non discriminatory patenet use agreement in place.

[Anonymous Coward]

C# full of submarine patents

"Java is NOT an ISO standard (as C# is), in fact standardization ISN'T EVEN IN PROGRESS. Sun withdrew the Java standard when they found that they must release control over the language and CONTRIBUTE RELATED IP (read patents) to the public good."

Yes. But happily that didn't apply at Microsoft, who kept all the patents and _still_ got C# through the standardisation process. Money can buy everything, especially ISO.

Which means ISO standardises _anything for anyone_ who has enough money to pay for it, which in turn means that ISO-standards mean nothing: No matter how many submarine patents there are, ISO don't care if you have money.

Sun didn't have, MS had. It's so simple.

[Anonymous Coward]

ISO Who?

So c# is an ISO standard? The the fuck cares what ISO says after the OOXML fiasco; they'll rubber stamp anything as a "standard" if you bribe them enough. If I win the lottery this week I'll talk to them about assigning the way I scratch my arse as an international standard.

ISO? Wise up!

[Kebabbert]

MS stopped Java standardization:

"Java is NOT an ISO standard (as C# is), in fact standardization ISN'T EVEN IN PROGRESS. Sun withdrew the Java standard when they found that they must release control over the language and CONTRIBUTE RELATED IP (read patents) to the public good."

MS stopped Java from being standardized. MS claimed it is not good for a company to exert too much power over a standard, which is fair. But now MS is just exerting that much power over OOXML! Hipocrasy.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EKF/is_n2203_v44/ai_20201013/