Just test them on Meth/crack heads - who cares if they die? actually that would be one way to cure the scourge of drugs.
In shock* news it has emerged that a group of sheep in America, out of their minds on Class A drugs, have been repeatedly blasted using controversial electric Taser stun weapons. Rather than some kind of degenerate drug-fuelled brouhaha indicative of the moral decline among America's sheep community, the ovine electro-stunning …
This experiment is nothing more than a puff PR piece. My problems with it
- I think I'm right in saying sheep react physiologically differently to opioids, and in fact to many medications. That's why they aren't lab animals (that and they are very tasty...)
- Did any of the sheep also suffer from diseases humans sufffer from - heart disease etc.
- More to the point, were any of the sheep in the poor condition (Hep C, HIV etc.) that a significantly higher number of drug addicts suffer from
- Why do smaller ones suffer from increased cardiovascular problems when being tasered? Does this mean we can taser everyone over 16 stone, or over 8 stone?
Total crock, whoever authorised this "experiment" needs to be tasered til they mess themselves. It's the only way they'll learn!
Wrong: Methamphetamine is not an opioid, it is an amphetamine (the clue is in the name). These work in a much simpler way. Opioids act differently between species, as they act upon the brain, and mammalian brains tend to vary substantially between species. Amphetamines are smaller molecules that act on the metabolism. There is much less variation in this between species, particularly mammals.
Right: Sheep are not the best model for human physiology. Pigs are better.
It was probably cheaper/easier to get away with the testing on sheep, Animal rights activists probably don't care so much about them (because they are so tasty) they'd probably have to get through a lot of legistlation and protestation if they wanted to use something closer the requirements.
It's probably a lot more dangerous to meth up a bunch of primates too.
I wouldn't really want to be trying to taser some tweaked out chimp.
From a scientific viewpoint I have no problem with testing on animals, what would you suggest?
Testing on humans? I suspect that there might be some legality issues there, even if there wasn't the expense could be horrendous when you have to pay out after the tests prove that there is a danger to using meth and being tasered.
You'd have a bunch of effectively executed humans and I expect theire families would quickly learn it pays to be litigious.
>From a scientific viewpoint I have no problem with testing on animals, what would you suggest?
For some reason I read methamphetamine as methadone; for that apologies- obviously the red mist had descended after reading about yet another crappy study.
I'm not against testing on animals, but at least make sure the experiments are well set up and actually necessary. Tasering a bunch of sheep means f**k all when we're already generating masses of data from the regular tasering of humans.
The taser needs to be subject to the same kind of trials as a pharmaceutical. We're now at the Phase IV or Post Marketing Surveillance Trial stage. Animal models mean nothing except as media friendly way for PR companies to distribute product friendly info.
>>If they believe it's safe, surely Taser employees should be testing them on one another?
Erm, perhaps Taser don't think it's safe to be dosing their employees up with meth? Just a thought...
There is no easy answer here. Meth addicts plus controlled experimental conditions don't really go together, so it's pretty hard to find a perfect way of testing the safety of this. We also know all the alternative methods of restraint have risks, though goodness knows how you'd come up with a trail to see what's safer.
However it's unlikely that because there aren't any safe methods of restraint that the drug-crazed-criminal population is suddenly going to start co-operating with the police. So you try and find the safest alternative, for both police and suspects, and do the best you can.
I don't quite get the kneejerk anti-taserism from my fellow commentards. Sure they can be used to torture suspects, but so can every other piece of equipment the police carry. It seems to me that there's been a lot of effort to try and ensure that when this happens, it's detectable. There are clearly times when a taser is a far superior (and probably the only) alternative to shooting someone - so what's not to like?
If there's a problem with police indiscriminate use of force, that's a police problem, not a taser problem.
"addicts plus controlled experimental conditions don't really go together"
I don't know, it didn't stop the Gov and MOD working on this sort of thing at at Porton Down. Happily giving innocent soldiers doses of God-knows what then asking them to perform basic tasks, letting them go without telling them what they had been given or why.
All in the name of science. We don't need a reason, we just need answers, even if they are wrong ones, we just need them!
"Using sheep as a human model for such a physiological complex interaction? Yeah, I can't see any problems there." I can't help wondering whether such things as wool might make a difference. I really don't know, but does anyone else? How would it be measured. Also, the amount and type of fat might be relevant (if I remember my biology from a few (ahem) years ago, mutton fat gives off much more energy than other domestic food animals. Again, I don't know if it make any difference, but does anyone else, especially the notoriously deceptive bastards at Taser?
"If they believe it's safe, surely Taser employees should be testing them on one another?". This sounds good, because the sick fucks who a) invented the Taser, and b) come up with experiments like this to justify their use are clearly all on mind-altering substances of some description, and are therefore much better models than sheep!
... how do we know that sheep respond in the same way to these drugs as humans do? Is there any evidence (a quick Google search hasn't come up with anything)? I suspect they might just as well have given doses of the drugs to trees, and then Tasered them - the results would have been abou the same.
Yes, as we all saw at those protests in London last year. Well, those who survived, that is. Not everyone made it home to see themselves on telly...
Surely the safest weapon for the police to use is society's fear and respect of them, so that if a police officer tells you to stop, you stop. And I don't mean the fear they'll murder you.
"(four unlucky control animals got none at all) " ......... :-) Thanks for that deep personal insight into the Lewis Page, and presumably by professional association, the El Reg Executive Staff Psyche?
The study seems highly unlikely to win over the weapons' critics.... no error there. Anyone with any ounce of ethical probity would not treat another creature with such callous disregard. So they're sheep... that makes it ok to pump them full of drugs and then fry their brains? oh, hang on, reality check. That's what we do every day, isn't it... Ho hum.
A variety of descriptions for the collective term used for sheep: drove, flock, herd, drift, fold, mob, pack, trip.
Although most of these are probably no longer used today I think a trip of sheep would be more apt for this story.
Must say i would rather be a sheep herder, than a sheep flocker (sounds too much like a Harry Enfield sketch, goddam muddyfunster!)
I would expect that a higher death rate among junkies would actually be the result of their deteriorated physical condition caused by long term drug abuse rather than just 'being high'.
So it's essentially a marketting/coverup excercise for Taser/The Police force that means absolutely nothing.
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