But when I stand in front of it with flags...
But how will they see me when I am in protesting in front of it waving flags?
Somehow I'm reminded of this.
The Israeli armed forces have announced plans to double their existing force of robot bulldozers, after unmanned "Black Thunder" droid diggers apparently covered themselves with glory during the recent Gaza incursion. The IDF armoured version of the Caterpillar D9 bulldozer An IDF killdozer in a quiet moment. According to …
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As it's mostly used against civilian buildings, the armour was probably added to stop stone-throwers having a go at the driver. But obviously improvised devices are all the rage these days
As with all tracked vehicles, the tracks are the things to target, still exposed on these dozers according to that pic.
Now Mek-Quake, he was a Killdozer!
If the movies have taught us anything, its that track based machines can be stopped by a sock bomb to the tracks.
Turns it into just another roadblock. Just need a way of blinding all the snipers protecting said killdozer....
Mines the one with the socks and tub of grease in the pocket
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"No, but short of antitank weaponry you won't be slowing this thing down much. And if you blow it up, what exactly have you accomplished? It isn't like killing an enemy soldier, or even a military transport or combat vehicle."
Resource exhaustion. A D9 isn't cheap, you know. Blow up enough of them and you start to drain the resources of your foe. At minimum, you can at least really annoy them.
Exhaust pipe? You mean "Thermal Exhaust Port", surely?
And how come military machines are always so freakin' dull? Come on, guys! Paint a tail motif on the back of it, dress it up as a dragon! At least paint a whole load of Cyberdyne logos all over it...
I mean it's not like it's particularly stealthy. Why not make the final moments of your targets a little more interesting?
OMG! I can't believe The Followers of Saint Rachel The Pancake can spare the time from telling the rest of the World how to live their lives to actually read an Internet website dedicated to IT! Amazing! Aren't you all supposed to be out spending your benefit money protesting the G20 conference this week?
The D9 is heavily armoured as it regularly gets attacked with RPGs, Sagger ATGMs, AT mines and roadside IEDs. If all you had to worry about was stones you'd just use an unarmoured D7. The D9 is used by the Israelis to clear the camouflague and rubble used to hide arm caches, tunnels and IEDs, and Hamas and co hate them because they are very good at it. They also are very useful for persuading jihadis to leave buildings they have vowed to stay in until they are martyred - hilariously, all the D9 has to do is push one corner of a house for all those lightweight martyrs to come rushing out! Another interesting use found in the recent Op Cast Lead was that if a D9 was used to shake a building it also detonated many of the boobytraps set by Hamas. The Israelis have found it's also very good for clearing illegal settlements in the West Bank, but strangely you don't see any complaints from the Pancakers about that.
It is so successful that the US has used them in Iraq (yeah, that's right, frothing Libtards, your tax dollars paid for your GIs to use these too). They proved their worth in Fallujah, amongst other combat operations. In fact, the US had the original D9 and lighter D7 in Vietnam long before the Israelis got them.
And for the Followers of Saint Pancake that want to follow in her footsteps (or should that be scrape marks), first you have to go stand in front of a concealed weapon cache or smugglers tunnel in Gaza, ignore polite requests to stay out of the way from Israeli troops, then be stupid enough to stand in a spot where the driver can't see you (because of all the armour that stops your Hamas buddies from shooting him). Burning your own flag beforehand is optional but sets the right tome of gormless self-hate. Follow these simple steps and you too can become a propaganda "martyr" to the cause of Hamas, the same people that celebrated when the jets hit on 9/11! Please hurry up, you're just wasting resources here at home. Oh, and warn your parents that travelling to Gaza after your martyrdom can be a bit risky - the Corries were nearly kidnapped by gunmen during their visit, but I hear the people responsible were Fatah-alligned so they've probably been killed by Hamas anyway.
Yes, that's right, Rachael Corrie was the only person to die at the hands of the IDF. I bet she was hard to see in her flourescent jacket by those IDF observers sitting in full view of her and the bulldozer. Maybe one day you'll get off your fat 'ass' and protest about something. Preferably something you understand in a country you can find on a map. Ah, I see your problem there...
Not to mention the amazing revelation that the US supply Israel with stuff to commit warcrimes with. Well, you are well informed. Thanks for reinforcing stereotypes about American Idiots though. Just when you'd gained some respect for electing a non-retarded President as well.
... as the Israelis love to say. A remote controlled 60-ton armoured bulldozer is going to go a long way towards bolstering that rather shaky premise. Like so many of Israels 'proportionate' and 'reasonable' actions, it probably all looks very reasonable and proportionate in the context of the Israeli national discourse. But, like the guy caught having sex with a bicycle, looks a little less so to the average, sane, observer.
Still, as the old saying goes in Israeli politics, "there's no lost votes in killing Arabs". Or in flattening their hovels, apparently.
Joke Alert, cos in a normal world, this would be the April Fool
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Lol, I thought you lot gave up when your comic suit against Caterpillar got thrown out for it's obvious political and frivolous overtones? Of course, you guys never focus on the use of the D7 and D9 for such life-saving operations as firefighting (the robotic one was actually developed originally for use in fighting fires where an operator would most likely be cooked). People like you make me want to go out and buy a D9 just to keep the money flowing in to Caterpillar. Hey, now there's a thought - would be great for sorting out the garden! Bit slow for the daily commute, though.
The reason the Israelis have switched to the robot model is because they have lost several D9s to very large IEDs, and unlike the Palestinians, the IDF tries to protect their people (the Palestinians are happy for more "martyrs", especially white Amercians or Brits via the ISM.) In Gaza, the explosives for such IEDs are smuggled in through the tunnels under the borders to Egypt. When Israel controlled the Gaza Strip and created the Phillidelphi Corridor, it was in direct response to the smuggling in via tunnels of weapons, explosives and rockets used by Hamas, Fatah, and Islamic Jihad to attack civillian targets in Israel. Rachel Corrie died accidentally (even the ISM witnesses admit she panicked and wasn't trying to "martyr" herself) because she thought she was defending Palestinian homes - the reality was she died protecting terrorists that delight in shooting rockets at schools, and they have milked her death ever since for their propaganda.
Let me guess, you're a fully-paid-up believer that the ISM are some sort of Ghandi-like group of like-minded hippies, just out to "protect" the "poor, oppressed Palestinians"? So, did they tell you that in March 2003, fugitive Islamic Jihad terrorist Shadi Sukiya was arrested in a house the ISM rented in Jenin? The ISM version was that Sukiya went "door to door, looking for refuge from the Israelis" - the reality was he went straight to where he knew he would get shelter and protection. Unluckily for him his ISM buddies weren't as good liars as he thought they were, and the Israelis searched the building and found the brave jihadi hiding behind his friendly ISM human shields. For such a commited jihadi, he didn't put up a fight - when he was warned the Israelis were coming he dumped his weapons and ran to hide. A planner of suicide bombings targeted to kill Israeli civillians (note, not soldiers), he must have been much more comfortable sending others to "martyr" themselves.
Like the two suicide bombers from the UK - Asif Mohammed Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif - who got into Israel through the ISM, went straight to meet with the ISM, and then went on to blow up Mike’s Place, a bar in Tel Aviv, killing three people and wounding more than fifty in the process. Nice friends you have! Both Hanif and Sharif were carefully groomed for their roles in Internet chat rooms and at Islamic websites by those that knew "British" bombers would make much better news than just ordinary Palestinians.
But to get back to the Rachel Corrie myth, did they tell you she was "protecting the home of pharmacist Samir Nasrallah"? Bet they forgot to tell you she was actually over one hundred yards from the building when she stupidly decided to play chicken with the D9, which wasn't even facing the pharmacists building. And did they forget to mention the dozer was actually clearing scrub in the area so that the accompanying Israeli troops could search for IEDs, arm caches and tunnels? No, I guessed not. Or that she probably died because her ISM colleagues were so busy distracting the accompanying soldiers there was no-one to warn the dozer driver that she had got herself stuck in the rubble under one of the dozer's blindspots, so the driver couldn't see her? Quite ironic really that she probably died due to the nuisance actions she and her colleagues pursued.
Well, here's a tip - when you decide to emulate Saint Pancake, I suggest you check first if the D9 is a manned or robot one. You see, the robot ones are completely reliant on cameras manned by a remote operator, and there is already the suspicion that this will actually make the blindspots worse rather than better. As a last warning, please note the robotic one doesn't have a camera right over the blade looking down for the naive trapped in rubble and going under the vehicle.
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"Yes, that's right, Rachael Corrie was the only person to die at the hands of the IDF. I bet she was hard to see in her flourescent jacket by those IDF observers sitting in full view of her and the bulldozer....." Try a little background reading - the accompanying soldiers were in a closed-down APC due to the risk of snipers that had previously used such protests to target IDF soldiers. Rachel's ISM colleagues were also distracting the APC and D9 crew - the D9 crew were actually looking to the rear as to check where the ISM twits were when Rachel went under the vehicle. If they hadn't been distracting the crews the tragedy might have been avoided. But then you wouldn't have your "martyr" to howl about.
".....Maybe one day you'll get off your fat 'ass' and protest about something....." I did my student days, I did my protests, and it opened my eyes as to how many of these groups use the naive for their own political ends.
".....Preferably something you understand in a country you can find on a map. Ah, I see your problem there...." Jokes on you! I've actually been to Israel. And Bahrain, Saudi, Quatar, Abu Dhabi, Oman, Dhubai and Sharjah in the UAE, and Egypt. Bet you haven't even been close to any of those countries.
".....Not to mention the amazing revelation that the US supply Israel with stuff to commit warcrimes with....." So how is Rachel Corrie's death a warcrime, it was more a crime of immense stupidity on her parents part that they could let her get engaged with such people as the ISM. And let's not even discuss the smuggling tunnels she was shielding, which are used to bring in the rockets purposely shot at civillians in Israel (which, by the way, is a definate warcrime).
"....Well, you are well informed....." Obviously better than you. Did you do anything other than browse Indymedia before posting here?
"....Thanks for reinforcing stereotypes about American Idiots though...." Even more of a LOL - I'm British! Are you struggling to type with that big chip on your shoulder? Actually, sounds like you have a whole load of chips up there! Not surprising then that you have such a problem getting a realistic view of the World.
"....Just when you'd gained some respect for electing a non-retarded President as well." Sorry, can't take any credit for that, but if it pains you more I'll admit to voting for Maggie Thatcher! Twice (I missed the '79 election as I was in the Middle East at the time)!
RE: Martin Lyne
"You lack of sensitivity is astonishing...." Interesting - it's OK to talk of her death as long as it's in reverant tones? So, she got herself crushed by accident and that somehow makes her too holy to poke fun at? You must be a real drag whenever they discuss the Darwin Awards in your office! Or is it that you think she's above humour because of her politics? Would you be OK with the humour if it was Dick Cheney that got run over? I seem to recall many such a coments on websites by sensitive, moral souls like yourselves wishing all kinds of nasty fates on Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, etc, etc. Do I detect a little double standard here?
I do commend the inclusion of the wiki link though, it is one of the few relatively balanced accounts available, though it does leave out some points. The majority of others are so biased one way or the other you have to read a dozen from each side to get most of the facts.
RE: cassidy macfarlane
"Regardless of your personal opinion of the IDF vs Hamas in Palestine/Gaza, I find it immensely tasteless and shocking that you refer to the person killed by one of the 'dozers' as flippantly as you do....." But you think it's fine for pictures of her dying body to be constantly used in attempts to smear the IDF as "killers of unarmed protestors". Even the ISM have (finally) stopped insisting her death was deliberate. Can we say "hypocritical"? Grow up! Death is usually nasty and horrid, even when it's not accompanied by immense idiocy. Would you think it smart to play chicken with a D9? If you were the parents, would you then feel driven to tour the World telling all you were so proud of your daughter when there are a million other ways she could have been of real benefit to the World? Ignoring the ways she could have been a productive citizen at home in the US, if she wanted the thrill of travel and "saving the World" she could have used her time and energies defusing landmines in Cambodia, or driving food across Ethiopia to the starving, or even bringing healthcare to the poor of Gaza. But instead, she chose to actively try and obstruct a democraticly elected government from trying to prevent rocket attacks on their civillians by entering a dangerous warzone and playing chicken with an armoured D9. I'm sure that in doing so she was "striking a blow against Zionist Israel" had nothing to do with her choice. Of course, she was relying on the same democratically elected "Zionist" country's laws to keep her safe - I don't see the ISM protesting in countries like Iran, North Korea, Mozambique or even China, where they can't bank on the same decency to keep them out of prison. What do you think Mugabe used to flatten the shantytowns, a lawn roller? Rachel Corrie's unfortunate death was largely her own doing, aided by the manipulations of the ISM and her obtuse parents. If you don't think humour is fitting then I can type a scathing appraisal of such a naive, stupid and senseless waste of a young person's life.
And if I were her parents, I wouldn't have tried suing Caterpillar, I'd have been suing the ISM for deliberately endangering my daughter for their own political ends.
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But give me a Military spec JCB any day :D
And regarding the Rachel Corrie affair, from what I can see (as an Impartial welshman) she was there of her own choice and decided to stand in front of 40-odd metric tonnes of armorued earthmoving equipment in a warzone, not usually the plan of action for a long, healthy life.
Sorry, but Matt is right.
Corrie's death is the result of the rebellious student mindset taken to the absolute extreme. When people are young, particularly around university age they want to stick it to the man. That means supporting a cause that's unpopular.
Most people support causes like we're seeing in London today such as anti-globalisation, extreme green agendas and that sort of thing. They go out and protest, maybe join in if it gets a bit out of hand and might go as far as smashing a shop window, but other than that they then go home, maybe do this a few times more over the next few years, then they grow up and often realise their view was idiotic and naive.
In the recent spat between Israel and the Palestinians something like what, 1200 Palestinians and 13 Israelis died? We had uproar over that, whilst in the meantime we've heard fuck all on Darfur where 200,000 have died and 1 - 2million displaced. Of these many have been raped, maimed and pretty much all of them are entirely innocent civilians. The same cannot be said for Hamas where the Israelis at least don't go in and cut a whole villages hands off and rape all the women and so on and where Hamas are absolutely not an innocent party. If these protestors really cared about making the world a better place and really had a clue about what's wrong with the world they'd start with stuff like this, where things are much more clear cut and much more tragic.
I find it rather odd the idea that the IDF are evil because they ran her over. It's a fucking bulldozer, a massive fucking armoured bulldozer and not the fastest moving vehicle on earth. You have to be pretty stupid to get yourself run over by something like this. This is a tragic case of the most extreme of young protesters supporting a cause they have no real understanding about to stick it to the man and getting themselves killed through sheer stupidity.
The only part I don't agree with Matt is your used of "LibTards"! I'm as liberal as they come, but don't disagree with your points! In fact, a Liberal viewpoint will generally involve letting things sort themselves out, which is arguably what happened here - a problem (a foolish and ignorant protestor) sorted itself out. What you have a problem with Matt is stupidity, and unfortunately stupidity effects all philosophical leanings.
The sooner we stop making it cool to fight against the man to people who are too young and too naive to know why things are the way they are the better. Look at the kid arrested in the armoured vehicle in London today - another fine example of someone too young and too naive to know what he's doing, and now he's been arrested because he had a police uniform and it's illegal to impersonate a police officer. Great start to his adult life that could've been avoided if he had even an ounce of common sense and didn't subscribe to ignorance all for the sake of fighting the man.
The world is very fucked up when Darfur is not an acceptable cause because the man agrees it's a problem and so it's not a cool cause but supporting terrorists is however acceptable because they too are fighting against the man and that's apparently cool.
"OK, judging from a quick perusal of your previous comments on stories in el reg, it is quite patently obvious you are misguided, or a troll (or both)....." OK, I can probably admit to the anti-Sun trolling, but who exactly am I supposed to be trolling for here, Caterpillar?
"....You do not seem to care about the insensitive tone of your comments, and are obviously some sort of daily fail-reading twat...." Sorry, but I actually don't read newspapers, I get my news and opinion from a variety of websources from both sides of the political divide. Shame, you'll have to formulate a new stereotype to pigeonhole people with. Or maybe that should be wait for someone to give you a new stereotype seeing as you seem incapable of formulating any original thought.
"....You have made up a highly offensive nickname for a civilian needlessly killed by overzealous IDF actions..." Firstly, the sarcastic title "Saint Rachel of The Pancake" appeared on American websites years ago, so I can't claim any original work there. I just know it winds up people like you. Secondly, Rachel died because she took her game of chicken too far. If anyone was overzealous it was her.
"....and when reasonable people complain or point out your apparent lack of empathy, you repeat your slurs...." I'm guessing you only label people that agree with your point of view as either reasonable or empathic. Can't say I'm upset as I really wouldn't think myself at all reasonable if I managed your level of obtuseness.
"....You have also piped up with a load of unsubstantiated information, designed to further annoy and 'wind up' the majority of people who read the register...." Unsubstantiated? Which bit? Would you like reference links to really show up your ignorant and biased bigotry? Hold on a sec, I anticipate a big admission of lack of knowledge hiding somewhere soon in your replies.....
"....you are a troll. fuck off back under your bridge...." You are obviously well-versed in the art of debate - not! Still, not surprised you'd sink to that level so soon.
"....dick." I though your name was Cassidy?
And on to your feeble attempt at round three!
"Whatever, sheesh, I think you have issues....." Everyone's entitled to their opinion in a democracy. Mine of you, for instance, is that you are naive and uninformed, but then maybe that will change when you get out of school, get some real life experiences, and maybe develop the mental capability for objective thought.
".....I could break down your arguments, but what's the point? I dont have the time nor the inclination to clash heads with such an ignoramus....." Hmmmm, I suspect that translates to "Whoa! In my tight-knit little group of the like-minded and hip I've never had anyone question the validity of what others have told me is The Truth. Cr*p, I don't know how to formulate an argument - real discussion isn't tolerated here, it's just so uncool - I'd best just act blase and pretend I don't care!" Evidently, you think Rachel Corrie's death is important, just not important enough to mount any kind of defence that requires independent thought.
"....You obviously have lots of time to sit and write screeds and screeds about the 'ISM' (which I was not familiar with before today)....." Took about five minutes. Oh, and is that the admission of complete ignorance I predicted? Spot on! Don't you do any research before wading in and defending someone that "died for a cause", just to make sure you understand what that cause is all about? Or do you just pick the causes others tell you are "cool"? Can't say I'm surprised, but it does give a lie to your saying "I could break down your arguments" when you haven't even heard of the ISM. In future, I suggest a little preparation before you start digging yourself such a big hole to climb out of, otherwise you will look like - how did you put it? - an ignoramus!
"....Some of us have jobs to do....do you?" Yeah, quite a nice job, actually, with one of those big, nasty, capitalist corporations. Hope that winds you up some more! But today, in anticipation of the lunatic antics of your like-minded anti-G20 chums, I'm on holiday, so I have plenty of spare time to expose people like you.
Let's just make it clear for you lot from the Indymedia fringe - this is a technical website, and the readers are largely tech types. We specialise in sarcastic humour, bad-taste jokes and the kind of "wrong-minded thought" that will make the PC brigade like you lot blanche. We all also read a lot, and can craft an accurate websearch faster than you can say antidisestablishmentarialism, which means we will know what we're talking about. Heck, we invented the flamewar whilst you dweebs were busy pretend debating Vietnam/capitalism/globalisation/whatever-was-popular-flavour-of-the-week-in-protest-land. We also like our heavy-metal death-pr0n, and will be unamused if you interupt our mech worshipping with political propaganda pieces, so don't be surprised if you get highly offensive and annoyingly accurate posts exposing your stupidity.
By Anonymous Coward Posted Wednesday 1st April 2009 13:52 GMT:
"Matt = Truth. Sorry, but Matt is right."
By Billy Posted Wednesday 1st April 2009 14:31 GMT
"cassidy macfarlane is the ignoramus"
"Must be a bit of a deterrent to the suicide bomber knowing that to destroy an Israeli robot will only get him 70 inflateable virgin vinyl sex dolls in paradise."
@Matt Bryant - cant say I agree with you but your arguments are well backed up.
@Everyone not agreeing with matt bryant - His style of dialogue is confrentational and he voted for thatcher twice - of course he is not going to apoligise or be nice to you.
On the article itself - The only place Ive seen a machine like that is the pages of 2000ad - all our tech - electric cars , flying cars , fighter drones, arial drones and now utility vehicles are all looking more like the future we were promised/warned about. Im not sure if I should be worried about that .
Dear Matt - I have never seen anyone bend over so far to swallow the Israeli 'defence' force version. Erh Matt 'shaking houses to make the bombs go off' - yup, thats called bulldozing. To be honest we could sit here swapping facts all night long - the way you blame the media for not endorsing your position demonstrates what I call 'conspiracy theory logic' (I'm a psychiatrist). You'll never admit you're wrong because if you are - it's the media's fault for telling the wrong story!
I think your tasteless disregard for a human life tells us all we need to know about you and people like you, and your stories will be interpreted with that in mind.
Other examples of humour which Matt might enjoy are the IDF's habit of commissioning T-shirts glorifying the deaths of Palestinian women and children. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm
I'm not angry, I just feel sorry for you.
Someone disagrees with you ooh their so evil and wrong- only you have a monopoly on being right. Listen to yourself will you?
Well I disagree with you too and the Media especially the BBC is pretty feckin far from neutral. Try googling the Balen report - even they think they are biased!.
Ask yourself how Pallywood operates. Ask yourself why Arabs can live in Israel safely but Jews cannot live in Arab Countries. Try asking questions.
As I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their opinion in a democracy. My opinion is that you can't be a very good psychiatrist as I've always thought you had to be capable of comprehending a persons thoughts from their words before making a prognosis, not just jumping to pat conclusions that suit your own preferences. You base your whole idea of "conspiracy theory logic" reagarding the media on my simply saying I don't read the newspapers - that is not due to some paranoid fear of the papers and whether they are trying to force-feed me a certain point of view, it's simply that I'm too tight to pay out for a paper when I can get dozens of news sources for free off the Web (including many newspapers' websites). Of course, it could be what I wrote was irrellevant and you just label anyone with a contradictory view as "suffering from a condition".
It's also very revealing that, having made your presumptive diagnosis, you then immediately move to discredit anything I posted by saying; "I think your tasteless disregard for a human life tells us all we need to know about you and people like you, and your stories will be interpreted with that in mind." And I always thought a good psychiatrist sought to aid, not condemn. Now I feel really sorry for your patients. That's if you even are a psychiatrist.
Sorry, but either way it looks like it's back to medschool for you!
All people disagreeing with Matt if you can stop just slinging mud and name calling and take your time to express your view maybe people may take a little more serious your comments, as the general El Reg reader has a brain (well that is until they read the BOFH and realise its Friday and time for the pub) on there shoulders (working in the IT industry generally but not always requires a brain) then i may listen, until then i'm sorry i may not agree with everything Matt says as the IDF are not angels but he makes very valid points and if i'm making my own mind up i'm going with the well thought out response and not the 'your an idiot post'.
Look at the broader picture. In 1948, it was all desert and they moved in a bunch of displaced Jews. They toiled and made the land flow with milk and honey. The Arabs were there the last 17 centuries and what did they do? And all they can think of is a convenient excuse to takeover the fruit of someone else' labor. All they can preach is "kill the infidel". Can't they say "build your own house and keep it in order". Little wonder all the poorest countries are muslim countries. And the ummah (greater muslim nation) aren't even lifting a pinky to help. It's all "I'm holier than thou". Anyway, in the muslim calendar, the year is 1430, and their year is 354 days in length only.
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